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but google told me everyone can vibe code apps now and software engineers should count their days... it's almost as if there's more stuff we do than just write
by altmanaltman 11mo ago
but google told me everyone can vibe code apps now and software engineers should count their days... it's almost as if there's more stuff we do than just write code...
- eru 11mo ago> it's almost as if there's more stuff we do than just write code.. Yes, but adding these common sense considerations is actually something LLMs can already do reasonably well.
- darkwater 11mo agoIn 90% of the cases. And if you don't know how to spot that other 10%, you are still screwed, cause someone else will found that (and you don't even need to be an elite black hat to find it).
- AbstractH24 11mo agoWhat’s to say a human would catch this 10% either?
- MangoToupe 11mo agoThe salary you pay them, typically
- AbstractH24 11mo agoSalaries make humans infallible?
- MangoToupe 11mo agoNo, but it makes them motivated to be thorough. There is no way to motivate a chatbot (to do better or to any end).
- AbstractH24 11mo agoBut money is a way to motivate the people who created AI to create better AI. Because if it doesn't perform as expected, either people won't use it or they'll turn to a competitor next time they need to do something. And these companies need recurring revenue. If we're saying the way to ensure competency is to instill fear of not getting money tomorrow as a consequence of failure, then AI companies and humans are on equal footing.
- eru 11mo agoYou can run multiple chatbots in parallel. Use different models and different setups. It's like having multiple people audit your systems. Even if everyone only catches 90%, as long as they don't catch exactly the same 90%, this parallel effort helps.
- wesleywt 11mo agoHumans are pretty good at edge cases.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- LunaSea 11mo agoIf you explicitly request it which means you need to know about it.
- MangoToupe 11mo agoClearly not
- blitzar 11mo agohumans used open s3 buckets stuffed with text files of usernames, passwords, addresses, credit card numbers etc long before vibe coding was a thing.
- dr_dshiv 11mo agoPrediction: Vibe coding systems will be better at security in 2 years than 90% of devs.
- input_sh 11mo agoPrediction: it won't. You can't fit every security consideration into the context window.
- eric-burel 11mo agoYou may want to read about agentic AI, you can for instance call an LLM multiple times with different security consideration everytime.
- windexh8er 11mo agoAnd that buys you what, exactly? Your point is 100% correct and why LLMs are no where near able to manage / build complete simple systems and surely not complex ones. Why? Context. LLMs, today, go off the rails fairly easily. As I've mentioned in prior comments I've been working a lot with different models and agentic coding systems. When a code base starts to approach 5k lines (building the entire codebase with an agent) things start to get very rough. First of all, the agent cannot wrap it's context (it has no brain) around the code in a complete way. Even when everything is very well documented as part of the build and outlined so the LLM has indicators of where to pull in code - it almost always cannot keep schemas, requirements, or patterns in line. I've had instances where APIs that were being developed were to follow a specific schema, should require specific tests and should abide by specific constraints for integration. Almost always, in that relatively small codebase, the agentic system gets something wrong - but because of sycophancy - it gleefully informs me all the work is done and everything is A-OK! The kicker here is that when you show it why / where it's wrong you're continuously in a loop of burning tokens trying to put that train back on the track. LLMs can't be efficient with new(ish) code bases because they're always having to go lookup new documentation and burning through more context beyond what it's targeting to build / update / refactor / etc. So, sure. You can "call an LLM multiple times". But this is hugely missing the point with how these systems work. Because when you actually start to use them you'll find these issues almost immediately.
- compootr 11mo ago@grok all software engineers do is mindlessly turn specifications into code in one shot, right?!?
- agos 11mo agoSee also: HN told me that regulation is bad and this is why the EU is behind!
- rendaw 11mo agoAFAICT Filevine doesn't use AI programming: https://www.filevine.com/jobs/d64dfff5-e36f-4db6-adac-0fc082f9567e/ https://www.filevine.com/jobs/d64dfff5-e36f-4db6-adac-0fc082... There's no mention of AI there other than writing code to integrate AI pipelines. I've seen a lot of job ads (Canva) lately that mandate AI use or AI experience, and as an AI company if they wanted that I think they would have put it in the ad. For the record I think I may be fine with the insincerity of selling AI but not using it!