5 ms·

Half of Linux Users Stick with X11, Despite Years of Wayland Being Forced

27 points by snvzz 11mo ago

aappleby 11mo ago
I can't dynamically resize my desktop to any arbitrary resolution in Wayland, whereas under X11+Nvidia it's just "nvidia-settings --assign CurrentMetaMode=..." This is mandatory for me as I'm constantly connecting into my workstation from other devices via Moonlight or Chrome Remote Desktop and I want the streaming resolution to match the resolution of my client.
- craftkiller 11mo ago
  swaymsg -- output eDP-1 mode --custom 1900x725 Setting arbitrary custom resolutions on the fly works fine on Wayland for me.
  - tetris11 11mo ago
    surprisingly lacking in Gnome
    - lern_too_spel 11mo ago
      I've used https://github.com/maxwellainatchi/gnome-randr-rust https://github.com/maxwellainatchi/gnome-randr-rust for this for Sunshine sessions in Gnome.
    - bcrl 11mo ago
      Gnome considers features a bug, so not at all surprising.
- BrouteMinou 11mo ago
  I use "wlr-randr" https://sr.ht/~emersion/wlr-randr/ https://sr.ht/~emersion/wlr-randr/
opengrass 11mo ago
Completely safe in situations like Qubes.
kop316 11mo ago
I have a desktop and laptop with X11 and another laptop and phone with Wayland. It's not because I prefer one over another intrinsically, it's because I use XFCE on the laptop and desktop, GNOME on the other laptop, and Phosh on the phone. That being said, they all run about the same to me? If XFCE swaps to Wayland, I probably will too. I have run XFCE for a long time, so I have been experimenting if I like GNOME or not and if to switch.
- Grisu_FTP 11mo ago
  How is it having a Linux phone? Do you use it as your main Phone? I kinda want to try it on an old phone i have just to tinker around a bit but that will never be a good of a test as using it as your main device is. How well do android apps work? what about banking apps? any issues that would make u NOT recommend it to other people? Are there many apps that are made for linux phones (or have a UI that works good with phones) so that you are not missing anything?
  - kop316 11mo ago
    > How is it having a Linux phone? Do you use it as your main Phone? Yes, I use it as my main phone. I like it, it reminds me a lot of the early Android days when I felt like I had complete control of the device, and I can customize it how I want to. If you want to tinker with it, I recommend a Oneplus 6/6T. They are sub $100 and its very well supported (that's what I am now using as my daily phone, with Mobian installed). I used to use a Librem 5, but it's battery life isn't great. The Oneplus 6 has no problem with a whole day's battery life with medium usage. > How well do android apps work? what about banking apps? I don't know, I tend not to use Android apps. Waydroid exists if you want to use them, and I have done that in the past. > any issues that would make u NOT recommend it to other people? Many of the devices have their own paper cuts to get it to work, and each model has their own quirks. For the Oneplus 6, calls have an audio problem with VoLTE that isn't fixed. > Are there many apps that are made for linux phones (or have a UI that works good with phones) so that you are not missing anything? For my use cases, it works. That includes SMS/MMS, voicemails, calls (sometimes, but I don't get many calls), email, car/bicycle/walking navigation, Signal, internet (Firefox), Matrix. Others have different use cases, so YMMV.
arcfour 11mo ago
I want to like Wayland, but they've really thrown the baby out with the bathwater. What matters to users is usability and, in this case, compatibility; not theoretical purity. The fact that I had to go seek out a way to run a headless Xwayland session to run Audacity without crashing means that Wayland is not ready for primetime (even if this should theoretically be fixed by Audacity).
- bloppe 11mo ago
  It's not just theoretical purity. Wayland also plugs pretty big security holes in X, like the ability to implement global keyloggers.
  - rcxdude 11mo ago
    At the cost of fragmenting the APIs to do any kind of related thing between all the different implementations (and making each one special-purpose as opposed to having a generalized mechanism to muck around with input and output).
  - phba 11mo ago
    Apparently X11 has a security extension [1]. There was a discussion some months ago [2]. Xenocara (X on OpenBSD) improves security by dropping privileges and using features like pledge [3], but I don't know how this affects the feasability of keyloggers. [1] https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xextproto/security.html https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xextproto/security.ht... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44768745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44768745 [3] https://man.openbsd.org/pledge.2 https://man.openbsd.org/pledge.2
wkat4242 11mo ago
Not a Linux user but Wayland on FreeBSD is not production-ready. So I don't have a choice yet.
- craftkiller 11mo ago
  I've been running Sway (wayland) on FreeBSD for years without issue.
  - wkat4242 11mo ago
    Yes it's in combination with KDE that it doesn't work well yet. Simpler window managers are ok. But big desktop environments still have major issues with freebsd's wayland. KDE for sure and I believe Gnome also (I don't use it).
vermaden 11mo ago
Everything that I need works perfectly on X11. Why would I move to Wayland where at least some things DO NOT WORK?
znpy 11mo ago
Of course. I run XFCE and don't give half a fck about what's underneath. As long as XFCE runs on X11, I'll stick to X11. Gnome is brain-damaged, I'd rather stick to an *allegedly* insecure X11 than switch to Gnome+Wayland.
tetris11 11mo ago
I'd happily jump, there's just no AwesomeWM successor, and I want to bring a decade's worth of custom bindings with me
- s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
  Nice to see a fellow awesome( )wmer, hi!
- mindcrash 11mo ago
  You might want to give Mango a spin: https://mangowc.vercel.app/ https://mangowc.vercel.app/ - Docs: https://mangowc.vercel.app/docs https://mangowc.vercel.app/docs
  - tetris11 11mo ago
    It looks nice, but I dont actually use tiling features that much. I just like easy reliable manual placement
mindcrash 11mo ago
GNOME has already dropped support for X11, and KDE Plasma is planning it for the next major point release (6.8): https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-future/ https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-f... That might change things a bit.

27 points by snvzz 11mo ago

I can't dynamically resize my desktop to any arbitrary resolution in Wayland, whereas under X11+Nvidia it's just "nvidia-settings --assign CurrentMetaMode=..." This is mandatory for me as I'm constantly connecting into my workstation from other devices via Moonlight or Chrome Remote Desktop and I want the streaming resolution to match the resolution of my client.

craftkiller 11mo ago
swaymsg -- output eDP-1 mode --custom 1900x725 Setting arbitrary custom resolutions on the fly works fine on Wayland for me.
- tetris11 11mo ago
  surprisingly lacking in Gnome
  - lern_too_spel 11mo ago
    I've used https://github.com/maxwellainatchi/gnome-randr-rust https://github.com/maxwellainatchi/gnome-randr-rust for this for Sunshine sessions in Gnome.
  - bcrl 11mo ago
    Gnome considers features a bug, so not at all surprising.
BrouteMinou 11mo ago
I use "wlr-randr" https://sr.ht/~emersion/wlr-randr/ https://sr.ht/~emersion/wlr-randr/

opengrass 11mo ago

Completely safe in situations like Qubes.

kop316 11mo ago

I have a desktop and laptop with X11 and another laptop and phone with Wayland. It's not because I prefer one over another intrinsically, it's because I use XFCE on the laptop and desktop, GNOME on the other laptop, and Phosh on the phone. That being said, they all run about the same to me? If XFCE swaps to Wayland, I probably will too. I have run XFCE for a long time, so I have been experimenting if I like GNOME or not and if to switch.

Grisu_FTP 11mo ago
How is it having a Linux phone? Do you use it as your main Phone? I kinda want to try it on an old phone i have just to tinker around a bit but that will never be a good of a test as using it as your main device is. How well do android apps work? what about banking apps? any issues that would make u NOT recommend it to other people? Are there many apps that are made for linux phones (or have a UI that works good with phones) so that you are not missing anything?
- kop316 11mo ago
  > How is it having a Linux phone? Do you use it as your main Phone? Yes, I use it as my main phone. I like it, it reminds me a lot of the early Android days when I felt like I had complete control of the device, and I can customize it how I want to. If you want to tinker with it, I recommend a Oneplus 6/6T. They are sub $100 and its very well supported (that's what I am now using as my daily phone, with Mobian installed). I used to use a Librem 5, but it's battery life isn't great. The Oneplus 6 has no problem with a whole day's battery life with medium usage. > How well do android apps work? what about banking apps? I don't know, I tend not to use Android apps. Waydroid exists if you want to use them, and I have done that in the past. > any issues that would make u NOT recommend it to other people? Many of the devices have their own paper cuts to get it to work, and each model has their own quirks. For the Oneplus 6, calls have an audio problem with VoLTE that isn't fixed. > Are there many apps that are made for linux phones (or have a UI that works good with phones) so that you are not missing anything? For my use cases, it works. That includes SMS/MMS, voicemails, calls (sometimes, but I don't get many calls), email, car/bicycle/walking navigation, Signal, internet (Firefox), Matrix. Others have different use cases, so YMMV.

arcfour 11mo ago

I want to like Wayland, but they've really thrown the baby out with the bathwater. What matters to users is usability and, in this case, compatibility; not theoretical purity. The fact that I had to go seek out a way to run a headless Xwayland session to run Audacity without crashing means that Wayland is not ready for primetime (even if this should theoretically be fixed by Audacity).

bloppe 11mo ago
It's not just theoretical purity. Wayland also plugs pretty big security holes in X, like the ability to implement global keyloggers.
- rcxdude 11mo ago
  At the cost of fragmenting the APIs to do any kind of related thing between all the different implementations (and making each one special-purpose as opposed to having a generalized mechanism to muck around with input and output).
- phba 11mo ago
  Apparently X11 has a security extension [1]. There was a discussion some months ago [2]. Xenocara (X on OpenBSD) improves security by dropping privileges and using features like pledge [3], but I don't know how this affects the feasability of keyloggers. [1] https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xextproto/security.html https://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.6/doc/xextproto/security.ht... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44768745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44768745 [3] https://man.openbsd.org/pledge.2 https://man.openbsd.org/pledge.2

wkat4242 11mo ago

Not a Linux user but Wayland on FreeBSD is not production-ready. So I don't have a choice yet.

craftkiller 11mo ago
I've been running Sway (wayland) on FreeBSD for years without issue.
- wkat4242 11mo ago
  Yes it's in combination with KDE that it doesn't work well yet. Simpler window managers are ok. But big desktop environments still have major issues with freebsd's wayland. KDE for sure and I believe Gnome also (I don't use it).

vermaden 11mo ago

Everything that I need works perfectly on X11. Why would I move to Wayland where at least some things DO NOT WORK?

znpy 11mo ago

Of course. I run XFCE and don't give half a fck about what's underneath. As long as XFCE runs on X11, I'll stick to X11. Gnome is brain-damaged, I'd rather stick to an *allegedly* insecure X11 than switch to Gnome+Wayland.

tetris11 11mo ago

I'd happily jump, there's just no AwesomeWM successor, and I want to bring a decade's worth of custom bindings with me

s1mplicissimus 11mo ago
Nice to see a fellow awesome( )wmer, hi!
mindcrash 11mo ago
You might want to give Mango a spin: https://mangowc.vercel.app/ https://mangowc.vercel.app/ - Docs: https://mangowc.vercel.app/docs https://mangowc.vercel.app/docs
- tetris11 11mo ago
  It looks nice, but I dont actually use tiling features that much. I just like easy reliable manual placement

mindcrash 11mo ago

GNOME has already dropped support for X11, and KDE Plasma is planning it for the next major point release (6.8): https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-future/ https://blogs.kde.org/2025/11/26/going-all-in-on-a-wayland-f... That might change things a bit.