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Craigslist begins to roll out PadMapper-like map view for apartment listings
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- kylelibra 14y agoLove this headline. For those unaware, Craigslist is suing PadMapper for using their data.
- kefs 14y ago> Craigslist is suing 3Taps for using Google's Data.
- blhack 14y agoI would feel bad for the PadMapper maintainer, except for the fact that he seemed so self-entitled here in the threads.
- graue 14y agoReally? He seemed very humble to me and consistently expressed a sincere wish to come to an agreement with Craigslist. The impression I got was that CL couldn't possibly have sued a nicer guy.
- Hilyin 14y agoHope padmapper comes up victorious, CL is being a huge bully it seems.
- redthrowaway 14y agoHow are they being a bully? It's their service. If they want to kick someone off it and develop a competitor, that's their prerogative. This is just another example of why you shouldn't base your startup on someone else's product. If you're successful, they'll develop a competitor and use their position to push you out.
- Karunamon 14y ago>How are they being a bully? It's their service. If they want to kick someone off it and develop a competitor, that's their prerogative. So? They're still being a bully. Just because you're acting within the confines of the law and your rights doesn't necessarily mean you aren't being a dick about it.
- fourmii 14y agoSo CL are bullies for dictating what people can do with their data?
- jaggederest 14y agoThe idea that Craigslist owns their posts is ridiculous. It may be true from a legal point of view, but from a moral point of view they're just the custodian of that data for the people posting it, and they should act as such.
- flatline3 14y agoIf Craigslist doesn't own the posts, then that means the users own their own posts, and you don't have their permission to re-use their posts. This just puts you back where you started.
- jaggederest 14y agoNot really - the users own the posts and put them up in order to get publicity. It's like claiming 'I republished your classified ad for you in 6 papers' is a problem - virtually every classified ad would be pleased that they had more coverage.
- flatline3 14y agoI don't want my classified ads republished because I've chosen to publish the advertisement in places that target specific types of people. It's incredibly naive to assume you know best. We have our job ads republished by job sites with user bases that are far outside what we're interested in, and it results in a massive waste of our time in filtering those candidates.
- mikegirouard 14y agoI'm speculating here, but perhaps this was the root of CL suing PadMapper in the first place.
- minouye 14y agoThey've been looking for a front-end developer with "integrated mapping technology" experience since early this year, so not a completely unreasonable guess. http://www.craigslist.org/about/craigslist_is_hiring http://www.craigslist.org/about/craigslist_is_hiring
- dumb-dumb 14y agoYou think they had this functionality in the works before PadMapper? It certinaly doesn't look good for CL, IMO, if they only started working on it after PadMapper started gaining momentum. It's an interesting question.
- bmm6o 14y agoOnly if by "look[ing] good", you mean it changes your opinion of them. From most perspectives it doesn't really matter when they decided to move in this direction since it's their data. It's the same thing we've seen over and over, where a small guys builds on someone else's platform, and the platform provider uses their inherent advantages to take over.
- dumb-dumb 14y agoIMO = in my opinion How did you get your numbers for your conclusion about "most perspectives"? That is not just an opinion, correct? Otherwise you might have used words like "I think" or "in my opinion". Another related conclusion I'm curious about is "their data" (i.e. the data users uploaded is now CL's data). That is not just an opinion, correct? When I search for a clear answer on that issue, I can't find one. I'd love to see some clear guidance on this question. Platform providers do sometimes use their advantages unfairly. But platforms cannot succeed without some level of symbiosis between those who provide them and those who use them. This is only my opinion. However I have seen others say much the same thing.
- RichardKim 14y agoIt still sucks. looks cool and works fast but functionality is just not there...
- dm8 14y agoCL have eyeballs, content and audience. So I'm not surprised that they are doing this. They'll also come victorious. Content is king. As always!
- philfreo 14y agoExcept it sucks compared to PadMapper.
- alooPotato 14y agoActually its pretty good - solves 90% of the use cases for me. And it feels much faster than padmapper.
- wave 14y agoI was almost certain[1] that Craigslist was working on PadMapper like interface and it was the reason they sued. They should have done the right thing and hire/buy one person company PadMapper. [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4149263 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4149263
- flatline3 14y agoI don't see why the "right" thing would be to reward someone for breaking your ToS and stealing your database as a means of creating a potential competitor to your business. On top of that, even if PadMapper had not been slimy, I don't see why it's "right" to pay a sum for something you're perfectly capable of building yourself for less time, money, effort, and headache than what an acquisition would cost.
- derefr 14y agoNo, of course, it's not like Craigslist has done some damage to PadMapper and now needs to buy them as recompense or anything. But buying them would be the... gallant thing to do? That is, it isn't so much what Craigslist "needs" to do to be in the right, here, but it's what they could do to be in the very right. To be better than any other random classifieds company, to generate viral PR, to be something you'd be happy to say you use, etc.
- flatline3 14y agoI think it would be wrong to reward the PadMapper author's ethically questionable behavior.
- sliverstorm 14y agoBeing gallant doesn't make you better than other random classifieds companies. It makes you more gallant. That might be worth something to a few users, but it doesn't seem like the majority care.
- ataggart 14y ago1. No one needs to agree to a ToS to read CL data. 2. One cannot "steal" publicly accessible data. 3. A search interface with resulting links to the relevant post on CL; if PadMapper was a "competitor" then so is google.
- forgotusername 14y agoMoral of the story, yet again, ad infinitum: don't waste your time watering somebody's else's garden. Yes it's the Internet and technically data is practically almost free to reproduce, but this doesn't imply a trouble-free right to steal your neighbour's database and proclaim your 100 line Javascript hack a startup. Borrowing content like that only works when you have lawyers, cash, and an excess of testosterone or stupidity (see also: YouTube)
- JoeCortopassi 14y agoThis applies to business in general. If you're idea can be trivially reproduced by a semi-competent competitor, then you will find yourself in a heap of trouble once you have any measure of success.
- sliverstorm 14y agoWait, are you arguing YouTube is an unworthy hack? They have got to have a pretty big infrastructure to manage and re-encode all that video.
- forgotusername 14y agoPerhaps you're unfamiliar with the early history of YouTube
- RegEx 14y agoI'm actually not. Any good reads you know of?
- forgotusername 14y agoCould do worse than leafing through here (perhaps change date range to cover 2005): https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=nws&q=youtube#hl=en&gl=uk&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F4%2F2006%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F11%2F2006&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&q=youtube+copyright&oq=youtube+copyright&gs_l=serp.3...367638.368931.0.369635.10.10.0.0.0.0.178.1532.0j10.10.0.cesh..0.0...1.1.QvUpMTXmWms&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=6131426753015342&biw=1276&bih=686 https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=nws...
- yummies 14y agoI was kind of hoping craigslist was cooking up something awesome, and waiting for the product to be fully polished and "magical, revolutionary" before launching it. unfortunately, this just feels like they rushed out of the door with the first thing they could mash up. specifically, two shortcomings: 1. as far as i can tell, it doesn't show you what listings you've already clicked on, unlike every map based apartment search out there 2. it doesn't appear to be loading the data as you scroll around the map - it loads it all at once up front. of course it's nice that you don't have to wait for it to load as you scroll, but that means there's an upper bound to the number of listings you can search through, and just goes to show how incomplete their implementation is. i'm guessing that's why it isn't offered in NY yet - too many listings to serve all at once
- MartinCron 14y agoYou just used "fully polished", "magical" and "revolutionary" in the same sentence as craigslist. There's no precedent for any of those adjectives.
- beatpanda 14y agoSo, should PadMapper countersue Craigslist for anti-competitive behavior? I think so, but I have a vindictive streak.
- tptacek 14y agoUnder exactly what theory of law would PadMapper be able to file such a suit? Late edit: By claiming Craigslist is a monopoly.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- graue 14y ago3taps did countersue Craigslist for anti-competitive behavior, and the filing is well worth a read. http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/24/3taps-files-craigslist-countersuit-refutes-copyright-infringement-says-craigslist-is-anticompetitive/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/24/3taps-files-craigslist-coun... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4567713 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4567713 I doubt PadMapper will join the suit, though.
- dchuk 14y agoProtecting what is yours is not anti-competitive
- beatpanda 14y agoBut what Craigslist claims is theirs is actually other people's data. Although this protection isn't currently enshrined in U.S. law, I'd like to think my data belongs to me.
- paulrademacher 14y agoNicely done. I never had any problems with Craigslist on HousingMaps. In fact, they were always quite helpful, e.g. unblocking my IP from their scraper list every year or so.