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Why doesn't Apple make a standalone Touch ID?
- ggm 10mo agoDoesn't this tie back strongly to the secure region logic? Sensing is one thing. Trusting the sensor input and what it unlocks is another.
- crazygringo 10mo agoNo, because they already do it for keyboards. There's zero reason they couldn't make it standalone. It's just the keyboard minus the rest of the keys.
- ggm 10mo agoSo they do a protocol bootstrap to link the sensor to the secure zone in some manner rooted in the trust region CA, and then do what they need without divulging secrets, over the USB bus? ok. that (or a more cogent version) would make sense. If you just package this button up, as a USB device, it's no different, if it can be bootstrapped as an input device "to" the secure zone.
- drum55 10mo agoIt’s more or less an entire apple watch acting as a secure element, or used to be in the older models.
- andsoitis 10mo agoHow big do you think the market for that would be?
- Brajeshwar 10mo agoFrom the way the Polishing Cloth, and recently, the iPhone Pocket gets sold out; this will get easily sold.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- heddelt 10mo ago>iPhone Pocket That has got to be a joke. It's like they're mocking their customers. I can't stop laughing at the sight of the guy they somehow convinced to model this thing in their promotional photo.
- crazygringo 10mo agoIt's a trendy fashion item for a particular subset of rich fashion people, which is not most people. It makes total sense in that context. It doesn't really need to make sense to everybody else.
- heddelt 10mo ago>The design drew inspiration from the concept of “a piece of cloth” Someone somewhere is taking the mick. I honestly would never be able to see a guy the same way again if I saw him wearing one of these.
- K7PJP 10mo agoThey're referring to A-POC https://www.moma.org/collection/works/100361 https://www.moma.org/collection/works/100361 In any case, these were sold in 10 Apple Stores worldwide, and only a single US store. They were aimed at an Asian audience, as far as I understand.
- dwb 10mo agoI don’t get the extreme negative reaction here and elsewhere. It’s not for me either, but I also don’t think it looks ridiculous – it just a little bag. There’s a pretty hard limit on how crazy that can look. It’s like the detractors aren’t aware or accepting that there are people with different tastes in the world. Why not just say “it’s not for me”?
- mingus88 10mo ago
- mcphage 10mo agoBigger than the market for $200 phone pockets.
- crazygringo 10mo agoA big proportion of everyone who uses a non-Apple keyboard with their Mac, I'd say. I would absolutely use one with my ergonomic keyboard, TouchID is so much more convenient than constantly typing your password in.
- andsoitis 10mo ago> A big proportion of everyone who uses a non-Apple keyboard with their Mac, I'd say. If you were to guess how many sales (e.g. in units) they'd make every year, what would you guess?
- dwood_dev 10mo agoHundreds, maybe even thousands. I jest, but probably the $150 sales of the TouchID keyboard would tank as they are displaced by such a device.
- re-thc 10mo agoWhich is small considering the Mac market itself is small relative to the PC market.
- nkrisc 10mo agoSo you’re already starting with a pretty slim market.
- tgma 10mo agoIt's so much more fun to use a Mac without TouchID. The whole Safari password autofill experience is much faster and less annoying when you don't have TouchID (does not ask for any approval while you're logged in/Keychain is unlocked.) If there's a `defaults write` command I can run to emulate my Mac mini experience on a MacBook please let me know. P.S. Liquid Glass + TouchID approval needed for every Keychain entry == Windows Vista
- ninthcat 10mo agoSystem Settings > Touch ID & Password > Use Touch ID for autofilling passwords. Turn this off on Macs with Touch ID and Safari will autofill without requiring Touch ID.
- tyre 10mo agoI mean, why would they? There is no scalable market. They want to control the hardware for quality and margins. They already sell a keyboard with Touch ID included. Mac accessories are far from their focus area. They don’t because it doesn’t make sense to. Edit: If you’re downvoting, feel free to say why!
- starkparker 10mo agoIf they made something that was just the sensor and logic board that they already manufacture, and sold it for exactly the same US$149 retail price _or more_, there are people in this thread who would buy it.
- tyre 10mo agoThat’s not enough volume for Apple. This is a company comfortable sitting on $100bn in cash. If they sold 1 million of those, it’s not worth it for them. Even 10 million units likely isn’t something they’re interested in, and I doubt they’d see anything close to that.
- tgma 10mo ago100% - they quit the much more lucrative WiFi business. The funny thing is the post, the likely the most interested party, who already spent $150+effort on a keyboard with TouchID admitted they are willing to spend $50. Literally the most excited customer who pays $150 is expecting a lower price than the keyboard. That simply shows the existence of such product is counterproductive to Apple's total revenue.
- re-thc 10mo agoOn the same note they should make a Face ID camera like Windows Hello.
- mayoff 10mo agoI was shocked they didn’t do this when they added the “notch” to MacBooks.
- sen 10mo agoI’ve been griping over this for years now. I get pretty bad RSI so like using a split mechanical keyboard for coding, but I also use long/complex passwords so I like using Touch ID too. It dumbfounds me that you can’t get a Touch ID pad or even a numpad with Touch ID to sit next to aftermarket keyboards.
- czstrong 10mo agoI bought a used Magic Keyboard on eBay for about $50 to sit within reach of my mechanical keyboard. Considered mounting it under my desk but haven’t bothered yet.
- cherioo 10mo agoI just bought the same and planning to break out just the touch id to put into a 3D printed enclosure. Expensive hobby…
- Waterluvian 10mo agoWhy would you unbundle your bundle and sell the TV channels one by one?
- crazygringo 10mo agoBecause if someone is going to all the trouble of getting a non-Apple keyboard, TouchID isn't going to convince them to go back to an Apple keyboard. They're using a different keyboard because things like key travel or ergonomics are a necessity. Apple could sell a standalone TouchID sensor and charge $50 or $60 for it.
- aetherspawn 10mo agoI buy and use the stupid keyboard just for this inconvenience. Although to be honest not the worst keyboard I own, but not the best, I probably rate it like a 7/10. It would be a 5/10 if the Bluetooth wasn’t so magically seamless. The low profile means I can get by without a wrist pillow.
- commandersaki 10mo agoI had a mechanical keyboard before getting the touch id one, and I have to say the touch id one feels much better to type on anyway.
- dddw 10mo agoNow I'm curious what mechanical keyboard you had before...
- qn9n 10mo agoYeah was it a cheap and not so great one or was it a no expenses withheld all out typing machine?
- commandersaki 10mo agoI have two, Ducky One 2 TKL (Cherry Brown), and a Durgod Taurus K320 TKL (Cherry Blue). Good keyboards and both similar to each other, but just find the magic keyboard a nicer experience.
- nunez 10mo agoTo be fair, your Apple Watch becomes a secure authenticator for your Mac when paired, so Apple probably prefers that you just buy an Apple Watch.
- plorkyeran 10mo agoTouchID does more than just unlock the computer. It's usable any time you'd otherwise be prompted for your password.
- graeme 10mo agoYou can use apple watch for password managers and all macos passwords prompts. Does require an apple silicon mac iirc. The main downside is it doesn't always recognize and it takes a few seconds to trigger. I'd love a separate touch id. But absent that the watch is quite useful.
- nunez 10mo agothere's a PAM that you can install that lets you use your Watch for superuser actions. i uninstalled it some years ago because it got kind-of old and Watch authentication is buggy anyway.
- geerlingguy 10mo agoI tried living with just the Apple Watch instead of the Touch ID for a few months to see how reliable it was... Sometimes it would take a few minutes in the morning before my Mac would even recognize 'hey, there's a watch' (typing in my full password was usually much quicker than waiting for the watch unlock). Sometimes whatever notification happens that triggers the watch to vibrate and allow the double-squeeze-to-accept action would just... not. Other times the above notification would pop up about 8-15 seconds after the prompt on the screen. It was inconsistent enough I got _really_ good at typing my password, since it was normally quicker than waiting on the Apple Watch. Contrast that with the Touch ID, that's always ready to go.
- nunez 10mo ago
- sleepybrett 10mo agoI used to have terrible rsi and switched to a kinesis advantage, if I could get a little touchid pad that i could attach with doublesided tape to it, it would be awesome. As it stands I just type my password a lot.
- petesergeant 10mo agoI stick an Apple Keboard to the underside of my desk
- sleepybrett 10mo agoI'm hitting up the help desk at work to see if anyone has turned one in to be recycled so i can harvest the controller/sensor.
- Simulacra 10mo agoI really miss touch ID on my phone, all of the swiping is a little cumbersome and sore after a while. Stretching my hand to swipe up down and so forth. I deeply miss the home button.
- gorfian_robot 10mo agosame!
- dbg31415 10mo agoSo this setup is for people who use a Mac, but not a Mac laptop (or who keep the laptop closed and use it exclusively with an external monitor), and who also don't want to buy Apple's keyboard with Touch ID, or an Apple Watch. I gotta say, I don't think that's a huge group of people.
- makeitdouble 10mo agoHaving a mac laptop doesn't help either if you use it primarily as a secondary monitor, relatively far away from your reach. This is a pretty standard setup in enterprise IMHO. Then not wanting to wear a watch and wishing for a better keyboard than the Apple one don't sound outlandish either.
- QuercusMax 10mo agoIt's very annoying when I'm using my personal mac mini and have to type my password a billion times, compared to my work macbook which lets me touch id. But is it annoying enough I'd actually buy one of these hypothetical $50 boxes? IDK.... I've got my two machines on a KVM so I can use my Kinesis keyboard with both of them.
- charlietran 10mo agoI did this recently, though on a much lower budget. You don’t need to buy a new $150 magic keyboard or a 3d printer. 1. Buy an old A2449 keyboard, ideally one with broken keys or battery but working touch ID. I got mine for $45 shipped. Recent listing example: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=magic+keyboard+a2449&_sacat=0&LH_BIN=1&_sop=15&_psop=15&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1 https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=magic+keyboard+a2449&_s... 2. Pry it apart as described in the article (really, there is so much glue) and then use some spare Legos to make an enclosure like this person: https://grepjason.sh/2022/standalone-touch-id-part-2 https://grepjason.sh/2022/standalone-touch-id-part-2 The standalone Touch ID key button is just under the size of 2x2x1 Lego. I integrated mine into a space diorama set for better vibes: https://imgur.com/a/Im7t9Xb https://imgur.com/a/Im7t9Xb
- pixelatedindex 10mo agoThat’s such a cool Lego diorama. Beautifully done!
- jq-r 10mo agoIt's 1/4 of this great set: https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/tales-of-the-space-age-21340 https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/tales-of-the-space-age-21...
- ChrisMarshallNY 10mo agoI actually have a small Magic Keyboard under my desk (in the keyboard tray). It’s positioned, so that I can reach under, without looking, and touch the Touch ID. I don’t like the rest of the keyboard. I have a big Keychron on top of the desk, that I use for typing.
- gorfian_robot 10mo agoapples and oranges (pun!) but my new win11 laptop has the 'faceID' feature and it works well. no idea why apple is so slow on this.
- PlunderBunny 10mo agoYeah - I’ve heard people say that the laptop lid (screen) is too thin for the sensors required to do proper FaceID (as opposed to just using the existing optical camera, which is easily fooled). But I don’t understand why the notch part of the screen just couldn’t be a bit deeper (and have a corresponding cutout on the bottom part of the laptop to accomodate it when the lid is closed). Then again, given how often the FaceID on my iPhone fails to recognise me…
- gorfian_robot 10mo agotrying turning off "require attention" for faceid on you phone.. and yeah, they can kill themselves making the iphone 17 air and a folding phone. but put an existing tech into a laptop? naw. not gonna do it.
- ben1040 10mo agoIt's me, I'm too lazy to modify a keyboard. I came upon a spare Touch ID keyboard. I just got Command strips and adhered the whole keyboard to the underside of my desk. USB cable is clipped to the desk and goes to my dock. I've got the fingerprint reader right next to my standing desk controls so it's really convenient, and I still get to use my Keychron as my keyboard. The low profile of the Apple keyboard means it doesn't get in the way. Also every time I need to unlock my Mac or sudo I get to feel like I'm tripping the silent alarm at the bank.
- er0k 10mo agoor just use a yubikey... it costs ~$50
- amanzi 10mo agoYour comment just reminded me I can use my Yubikey to unlock my Linux laptop but hadn't set this up yet. I've been typing my password each time like an animal! Thanks. :-)
- rcarmo 10mo agoDoesn’t really work with Apple’s own stuff. At least I never got it to work.
- 47282847 10mo agoThat’s not a biometric TouchID. Any touch by anyone will trigger it.
- mingus88 10mo agoYubikey Bio exists. It’s $100 though so, whether it not it’s worth integrating into MacOS vs a first party keyboard is going to be subjective
- xoa 10mo agoThis comment could use some elaboration. For those that don't know you can use a Yubikey that supports PIV as a smart card for logging into macOS and performing a range of admin authentication operations with just the PIN, not just in the GUI but sudo as well (and of course more directly for SSH etc). It's not a perfect substitute, no ApplePay, but it means you can have a long complex password and only need a 6-8 digit PIN for most usage while still being pretty safe, and has some positives of its own in a multiuser or machine environment. It's a very reasonable option to consider IMO, even though yes it'd absolutely be nice if Apple did better on the hardware auth front.
- Grisu_FTP 10mo agoThis is a bit offtopic (but im genuinely curious since i dont use iPhones) but is there any advantage to using faceid over touchid in iphones? This Notch/Dynamic Island looks terrible IMO. Also you can "Authorize" stuff without even having physical access to your device, someone could in theory pick up your phone, make it face towards you, say "LOOK!" and your phone is unlocked. Also i found it far more unreliable to instantly unlock. A fingerprint reader inside the powerbutton is the way to go IMO, you instantly unlock when u press the power button, you have to actually touch the device to verify and you have no notch. IIRC just looking at the confirmation if i wanted to buy something in the app store via face id was enough to confirm it.
- pacifika 10mo agoFace ID works in the rain
- Grisu_FTP 10mo agoIsnt the issue not the wetness itself but the wrinkles your finger get after being in water for longer periods of time? Atleast I cant remember when rain was so bad my fingers wrinkled true after a bath tho
- letouj 10mo agoNo, when I had a Touch ID iPhone, it would often have trouble reading my fingerprint even if my hands were just still damp from being washed in the sink for a few seconds and not fully towel-dried.
- pjerem 10mo agoYou don’t have glasses I guess.
- fnoff 10mo agoFor me the biggest advantage of faceid is that it isn't bothered by wet fingers or gloves. It works most of the time, where I remember struggling more (though still not often) with touchid. This was with an iphone 8, so I don't know how good they are now.
- rcarmo 10mo agoI’m on this bandwagon. Have my own keyboard (literally just finished soldering and 3D printing one) and still have to have the Apple keyboard cluttering my desk for biometrics). Have been thinking about this for a while, but it feels incredibly wasteful to spoil a useful piece of equipment just for the sake of getting at that sensor.
- lucyjojo 10mo agosomebody else in this thread stuck the keyboard under his desk with some tape.
- kevin061 10mo agoDoesn't Apple have a Face ID trick with a paired iPhone to replace Touch ID on macOS? That is probably why. They prefer you to buy an iPhone than to sell you another gadget. By the way, I like the idea but for some reason it unpairs randomly and I have to go into settings and re-enable it every couple of months. Really annoying.
- TMWNN 10mo agoI just want Touch ID to return on iPhones. Oh how I hate, hate, hate Face ID and its inability to read my face without my glasses when I get up in the morning. How is it that Moto figured out how to put the touch sensor on the back of the phone years ago, but Apple refuses?
- taldo 10mo agoI was wondering if it'd be possible to go further, and actually use it as a fully fledged keyboard, but with your choice of switches and mechanical layout... and turns out that somebody has been doing that already! basically reverse-engineering the matrix and hooking up your own switches to the logic board. You get TouchID, pretty good BT performance and integration in the Apple ecosystem, good battery life, ... and all in a single device. Found it in a forum post here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0 https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=120964.0
- dk404930 10mo agoI was always surprised that Apple never released a track pad with the Touch ID integrated in one of the corners. I’d purchase one in a heart beat if they did.