4 ms·

TSA's New $45 Fee at U.S. Airports Unfairly Punishes Families in the Fine Print

15 points by stn8188 10mo ago

ChrisArchitect 10mo ago
Related (fixed link): US air travelers without REAL IDs will be charged a $45 fee https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731
- Vaslo 10mo ago
  You linked the wrong article - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46136901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46136901 takes you to a steam article
- neogodless 10mo ago
  Not the correct link. Presumably you meant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 US air travelers without REAL IDs will be charged a $45 fee (apnews.com) 1 day ago | 69 comments
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- Polizeiposaune 10mo ago
  wrong link?
stn8188 10mo ago
I think this was already discussed recently, but I find this quote in the article very interesting: "Passengers don't listen, a lot of them think the TSA is a joke. The fines are a way to enforce the rules for the REAL ID," the former TSA officer told TheTravel. I've got one very concrete reason why I do think the TSA is a joke. They list a Veterans Affairs health ID card as valid ID even after this new Real ID rule. Despite that, I was forced to go thru "extra screening" in Austin because a bunch of agents were not aware of this (even though I had a print out of the website). Even in the TSA press release announcing this new fee still lists the VA ID as sufficient, but I'll forever just recall the complete lack of professionalism and knowledge of these agents.
- petcat 10mo ago
  How can a VA health ID card be considered a valid ID? Maybe a supplemental ID, but I can't imagine it would be allowed as a primary ID for TSA screening.
  - stn8188 10mo ago
    I was surprised too, but since I have one I figured I'd use it (before I got the Real ID). It's listed as "Veteran Health Identification Card (VHIC)" on https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification The VA recently gave out more recent ID cards that seem more detailed than the older ones.
    - petcat 10mo ago
      Yeah wow, TIL.
  - TimorousBestie 10mo ago
    https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification It’s right there, last bullet point. Typically, in the states, veterans are presumed to be less of a safety risk and receive preferential treatment at all sorts of venues.
    - jtbayly 10mo ago
      But the entire point of the law is to prevent you from pretending to be somebody you aren't. So this defeats the purpose, unless the whole thing is security theater... which it is.
  - cwmma 10mo ago
    A Veteran health ID card is a government issued photo id card used to prove your identity with the government to get health care, why wouldn't it be allowed for proving your identity with the TSA. 1. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
kgwgk 10mo ago
Airlines also unfairly punish families because they need to buy more tickets - and so does McDonalds when they buy multiple Big Macs, etc.
- stn8188 10mo ago
  The argument in the headline is sorta silly - I agree - but the quote I put in my other comment is the real reason I submitted this article.
CamelCaseName 10mo ago
After reading the article, this is actually a great thing for Americans? Previously, if you didn't have your "Real ID" (which, is a terrible name IMO) or passport, you were just... denied. And presumably that would cost far more than $45. This seems like an extra step to help you get through airports and prevent delays. Also, $45 for 30 minutes of a TSA agent's time + their software seems very reasonable? That could even be operating at a loss. I get it, the median person flies 0 times a year, the average person flies 1.5-2 times a year, there's a huge number of people who fly 0-2 times a year. Mistakes happen and they should result in seizing the whole system. ...but it's just insane to me that someone could go to an airport and not have an ID, let alone a passport. Come on. Edit (didn't realize the article continued): > American travelers were still permitted to fly without this updated form of ID with no penalties; they simply had to undergo additional screening, including handing over current addresses, per the TSA's website. I'm speechless.
- stn8188 10mo ago
  You make a great point, but (as noted in the article) some of us feel that the TSA is a joke for various reasons; one of which may be that the TSA did not actually accept forms of ID which their website states are acceptable :)
- jtbayly 10mo ago
  > Previously, if you didn't have your "Real ID" (which, is a terrible name IMO) or passport, you were just... denied. That is incorrect. You could still fly. You could just use any valid government ID, of which every state license was one.
  - xboxnolifes 10mo ago
    They don't mean prior to REAL ID, they mean prior to this service but while REAL ID requirements were in effect.
    - jtbayly 10mo ago
      That time never existed.
ranger_danger 10mo ago
It has been 20 years since the REAL ID Act of 2005... I am more than OK with this fee, and I don't think it unfairly punishes anyone at this point.
cmeacham98 10mo ago
Am I missing something obvious? What's the "fine print" that punishes a family of 4 more than a group of 4 friends? I can't find that information anywhere in the article despite it being the entire point of the headline.
- stn8188 10mo ago
  No, you're not. The fact that people think the TSA is a joke (as noted within the body of the article) is what stuck out to me. The headline is lame.
- duxup 10mo ago
  That's how I read it, it is a per person fee. I agree I read it as being the same cost for 4 individuals. There is a 10 day window so both groups could end up paying on the way back too.
- evanelias 10mo ago
  It's just a terrible article. The primary example doesn't even make sense, since the fee only applies to those aged 18+. Basically if your "family of four" is entirely adults, and none of you ever bothered to get Real ID, and your vacation is 11+ days long, then you have to pay the per-adult fee eight times instead of four... big deal. I am assuming this is just AI slop, given that it is needlessly 1700 words, including redundancies like "who spoke on condition of anonymity—their name is therefore off the record". Plus this gem of a final sentence regurgitating the lede and entire point of the article: "The upcoming fee will likely shift that figure even higher by February next year, when travelers without a REAL ID or a passport will have to shell out $45 when passing through airport security."
- mingus88 10mo ago
  A group of four friends typically will have four incomes A family of four typically has one or two incomes I have travelled domestically without even providing an ID at all for my underage children. Keeping current passport-level IDs for a large family is indeed a new burden that a group of adult friends does not have to account for For example, how often does your child need a current realID? Not until they hit the TSA. Good luck tracking all the expiries of every child, and making sure it’s all updated before your next 1hr flight to visit grandma. I know this is HN and demographically you largely skew younger without large families, but this is a real PITA for no actual security benefit
ch_123 10mo ago
Question from a European: I assume that most people flying within the US would use their driver's license as ID. Given how long this "REAL ID" standard has been in effect, why have the non compliant IDs not expired yet? Do some states not issue REAL ID compliant licenses? (Apologies if this is a stupid question, I'm not familiar with how these things work in the US)
- jtbayly 10mo ago
  In my state you still have a choice to pay more for a REAL ID, or just get a plain old drivers license.
  - ch_123 10mo ago
    Are there some onerous requirements for REAL IDs which require it to be more expensive, or is this a short-sighted money making scheme for the states?
    - someguydave 10mo ago
      To get a real ID you need to prove your citizenship, which is usually some combination of your birth certificate and/or passport or other IDs. Not really a big deal
      - cosmicgadget 10mo ago
        But does mean an office visit rather than (sometimes) a renewal by mail.
        someguydave 10mo ago
        having reliable government IDs means that people will be inconvenienced
    - JBlue42 10mo ago
      Depends on the state: https://www.usa.gov/real-id https://www.usa.gov/real-id
stevenalowe 10mo ago
In many states a RealID costs $40 and is good for 5 years; if the info/vetting process is the same then the $45 fee should come with an ID good for five years or more The TSA is not a joke, it’s a sleeper cell. Wait for the ICE-TSA collusion a bit longer and a $45 fee won’t save you from being the wrong color
- cosmicgadget 10mo ago
  The TSA is a sleeper cell?
Brian_K_White 10mo ago
If they offer an option to just pay more, then the need for the new ID can't actually be legitimate. If it was actually important for some real safety reason, then it would be crazy to allow a terrorist to just pay $45 to get around it. It's like when they take the supposedly dangerous potential bomb bottle of liquid from your bag, and just put it in a trash can right there still in this crowded airport with hundreds of civilian victims all around.

15 points by stn8188 10mo ago

Related (fixed link): US air travelers without REAL IDs will be charged a $45 fee https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731

Vaslo 10mo ago
You linked the wrong article - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46136901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46136901 takes you to a steam article
neogodless 10mo ago
Not the correct link. Presumably you meant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46115731 US air travelers without REAL IDs will be charged a $45 fee (apnews.com) 1 day ago | 69 comments
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
Polizeiposaune 10mo ago
wrong link?

stn8188 10mo ago

I think this was already discussed recently, but I find this quote in the article very interesting: "Passengers don't listen, a lot of them think the TSA is a joke. The fines are a way to enforce the rules for the REAL ID," the former TSA officer told TheTravel. I've got one very concrete reason why I do think the TSA is a joke. They list a Veterans Affairs health ID card as valid ID even after this new Real ID rule. Despite that, I was forced to go thru "extra screening" in Austin because a bunch of agents were not aware of this (even though I had a print out of the website). Even in the TSA press release announcing this new fee still lists the VA ID as sufficient, but I'll forever just recall the complete lack of professionalism and knowledge of these agents.

petcat 10mo ago
How can a VA health ID card be considered a valid ID? Maybe a supplemental ID, but I can't imagine it would be allowed as a primary ID for TSA screening.
- stn8188 10mo ago
  I was surprised too, but since I have one I figured I'd use it (before I got the Real ID). It's listed as "Veteran Health Identification Card (VHIC)" on https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification The VA recently gave out more recent ID cards that seem more detailed than the older ones.
  - petcat 10mo ago
    Yeah wow, TIL.
- TimorousBestie 10mo ago
  https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification It’s right there, last bullet point. Typically, in the states, veterans are presumed to be less of a safety risk and receive preferential treatment at all sorts of venues.
  - jtbayly 10mo ago
    But the entire point of the law is to prevent you from pretending to be somebody you aren't. So this defeats the purpose, unless the whole thing is security theater... which it is.
- cwmma 10mo ago
  A Veteran health ID card is a government issued photo id card used to prove your identity with the government to get health care, why wouldn't it be allowed for proving your identity with the TSA. 1. https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

kgwgk 10mo ago

Airlines also unfairly punish families because they need to buy more tickets - and so does McDonalds when they buy multiple Big Macs, etc.

stn8188 10mo ago
The argument in the headline is sorta silly - I agree - but the quote I put in my other comment is the real reason I submitted this article.

CamelCaseName 10mo ago

After reading the article, this is actually a great thing for Americans? Previously, if you didn't have your "Real ID" (which, is a terrible name IMO) or passport, you were just... denied. And presumably that would cost far more than $45. This seems like an extra step to help you get through airports and prevent delays. Also, $45 for 30 minutes of a TSA agent's time + their software seems very reasonable? That could even be operating at a loss. I get it, the median person flies 0 times a year, the average person flies 1.5-2 times a year, there's a huge number of people who fly 0-2 times a year. Mistakes happen and they should result in seizing the whole system. ...but it's just insane to me that someone could go to an airport and not have an ID, let alone a passport. Come on. Edit (didn't realize the article continued): > American travelers were still permitted to fly without this updated form of ID with no penalties; they simply had to undergo additional screening, including handing over current addresses, per the TSA's website. I'm speechless.

stn8188 10mo ago
You make a great point, but (as noted in the article) some of us feel that the TSA is a joke for various reasons; one of which may be that the TSA did not actually accept forms of ID which their website states are acceptable :)
jtbayly 10mo ago
> Previously, if you didn't have your "Real ID" (which, is a terrible name IMO) or passport, you were just... denied. That is incorrect. You could still fly. You could just use any valid government ID, of which every state license was one.
- xboxnolifes 10mo ago
  They don't mean prior to REAL ID, they mean prior to this service but while REAL ID requirements were in effect.
  - jtbayly 10mo ago
    That time never existed.

ranger_danger 10mo ago

It has been 20 years since the REAL ID Act of 2005... I am more than OK with this fee, and I don't think it unfairly punishes anyone at this point.

cmeacham98 10mo ago

Am I missing something obvious? What's the "fine print" that punishes a family of 4 more than a group of 4 friends? I can't find that information anywhere in the article despite it being the entire point of the headline.

stn8188 10mo ago
No, you're not. The fact that people think the TSA is a joke (as noted within the body of the article) is what stuck out to me. The headline is lame.
duxup 10mo ago
That's how I read it, it is a per person fee. I agree I read it as being the same cost for 4 individuals. There is a 10 day window so both groups could end up paying on the way back too.
evanelias 10mo ago
It's just a terrible article. The primary example doesn't even make sense, since the fee only applies to those aged 18+. Basically if your "family of four" is entirely adults, and none of you ever bothered to get Real ID, and your vacation is 11+ days long, then you have to pay the per-adult fee eight times instead of four... big deal. I am assuming this is just AI slop, given that it is needlessly 1700 words, including redundancies like "who spoke on condition of anonymity—their name is therefore off the record". Plus this gem of a final sentence regurgitating the lede and entire point of the article: "The upcoming fee will likely shift that figure even higher by February next year, when travelers without a REAL ID or a passport will have to shell out $45 when passing through airport security."
mingus88 10mo ago
A group of four friends typically will have four incomes A family of four typically has one or two incomes I have travelled domestically without even providing an ID at all for my underage children. Keeping current passport-level IDs for a large family is indeed a new burden that a group of adult friends does not have to account for For example, how often does your child need a current realID? Not until they hit the TSA. Good luck tracking all the expiries of every child, and making sure it’s all updated before your next 1hr flight to visit grandma. I know this is HN and demographically you largely skew younger without large families, but this is a real PITA for no actual security benefit

ch_123 10mo ago

Question from a European: I assume that most people flying within the US would use their driver's license as ID. Given how long this "REAL ID" standard has been in effect, why have the non compliant IDs not expired yet? Do some states not issue REAL ID compliant licenses? (Apologies if this is a stupid question, I'm not familiar with how these things work in the US)

jtbayly 10mo ago
In my state you still have a choice to pay more for a REAL ID, or just get a plain old drivers license.
- ch_123 10mo ago
  Are there some onerous requirements for REAL IDs which require it to be more expensive, or is this a short-sighted money making scheme for the states?
  - someguydave 10mo ago
    To get a real ID you need to prove your citizenship, which is usually some combination of your birth certificate and/or passport or other IDs. Not really a big deal
    - cosmicgadget 10mo ago
      But does mean an office visit rather than (sometimes) a renewal by mail.
      - someguydave 10mo ago
        having reliable government IDs means that people will be inconvenienced
  - JBlue42 10mo ago
    Depends on the state: https://www.usa.gov/real-id https://www.usa.gov/real-id

stevenalowe 10mo ago

In many states a RealID costs $40 and is good for 5 years; if the info/vetting process is the same then the $45 fee should come with an ID good for five years or more The TSA is not a joke, it’s a sleeper cell. Wait for the ICE-TSA collusion a bit longer and a $45 fee won’t save you from being the wrong color

cosmicgadget 10mo ago
The TSA is a sleeper cell?

Brian_K_White 10mo ago

If they offer an option to just pay more, then the need for the new ID can't actually be legitimate. If it was actually important for some real safety reason, then it would be crazy to allow a terrorist to just pay $45 to get around it. It's like when they take the supposedly dangerous potential bomb bottle of liquid from your bag, and just put it in a trash can right there still in this crowded airport with hundreds of civilian victims all around.