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Edit: I think I hold exclusively controversial hobbies / books / opinions. I would love this question so much if I ever saw it in an interview. Controversial to

by cryptoz 14y ago

Edit: I think I hold exclusively controversial hobbies / books / opinions. I would love this question so much if I ever saw it in an interview. Controversial topics seem to be perfectly suited to this question. Original: The point of an interview is two-fold: the company is looking to find a good match for an open position, and the candidate is looking for work. Neither of you wants to enter an agreement that will turn sour. It is a reasonable position that if you have no interests, or hobbies, or any read books at all that you are comfortable talking about with your employer, that you are likely a poor fit for the company. The topic does not have to be non-professional, either. Pick something that relates to the job if you must. Isn't about half the world's population somewhat socialist? Or fans of anime? Those two examples you picked are, in my opinion, absolutely ideal topics to answer this question with. Why would you be so afraid to talk about them?

mappu 14y ago
This is a tangent, but there are several segues you can use to get from anime to a generic technical discussion. Here are my examples: - I wrote a scraper for MyAnimeList.net to an sqlite3 db in order to build a mobile website. - I wrote a shell script that i keep a copy of in each folder for each anime series i watch. When the script runs, it parses its own name as a number and adds one, so that i can easily keep track of what episode i'm up to. I'm sure there are ways to turn almost any controversial hobby into something technical and demonstrable. Even if it's not something that you've built directly - Do you use the MAL Updater? Have you tried out Vocaloid? Using a really interesting playback method (hi10p, lavf, madvr, ...)? You could explain how they work.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  Ah, but the thing is: I don't have any technical projects related to anime. I currently have two technical projects on slow burn, but neither is anime-related. One of them is a research project, so I can always talk about that at the risk of coming across as single-minded. The other is a bit of software I'd like to turn into an on-the-side lifestyle business.
- duskwuff 14y ago
  From what I understand, Jason Garrett-Glaser (DarkShikari) got interested in video encoding through the anime scene. He's now the lead developer on X264.
  - mappu 14y ago
    Absolutely (although you'll get told off for spelling x264 with a capital X). The `--tune touhou` option is a big giveaway - fascinating to see how an anime-subculture game had such a profound effect, but it's obviously a useful test case for the encoder. My other favourite example in the same vein is Avery Lee of Virtualdub fame (with EA, last i heard?). He maintains some fantastic software and an enthralling blog, and it all comes back to Sailor Moon.
drivingmenuts 14y ago
> hobbies are controversial, or simply derided I think that answers your question. Look, you're asking someone to walk into an interview, with people they do not know, and lay out a portion of their personal life for examination, without any idea of how that information may be used against them. That's pretty unfairly tilted in favor of the company. I, for one, do not discuss my private life in depth in interviews - it's not the company's or the interviewers business to know that, beyond certain legal issues. I may choose to discuss at some point in the future when I better know the person to whom I speak, but until then, it's strictly a professional relationship.
- sadga 14y ago
  > That's pretty unfairly tilted in favor of the company. You seem to be assuming that the company's goal is to find a reason to reject someone. That's not correct. If anything, it's tilted in favor of candidates that have the same hobbies as interviewers.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    Which is still unfair.
  - drivingmenuts 14y ago
    No, my assumption is that a potential employer has no right to know anything about me outside of professional qualifications or what may raise legal issues (convictions, credit rating [iffy], or conflicts of interest). My personal life is strictly off-limits until I get to know them. Look, I know it sounds confrontational, and I don't go into interviews expecting a hostile environment. But I also don't go into interviews expecting to speak of anything other than things directly related to the business. I would be very uncomfortable if asked to speak about anything not directly related to the business or business environment there.
    - bduerst 14y ago
      Personality is certainly a legal deciding factor in hiring someone for a position in a company, especially in at-will employment states. It is illegal for a company to not hire on undue reasons such as race, religion, political affiliations, etc., but you are entering into an employment relationship, and it is not unfair to understand more about the person you are paying to work with.
eli_gottlieb 14y ago
I mean this question honestly: are you American? Because back in the States, mentioning that I'm a socialist would bring the reply, "So why are you working in private industry instead of for the government? Are you here to infiltrate our business?", and things of that nature. At that point I'm not explaining anything, I'm in a debate over whether left-wingers are violating our own principles by ever working in a private, capitalist business (the proper answer is, of course we are, but nobody living under capitalism can actually boycott all capitalist enterprises and remain alive day-to-day). At that point, I've failed the interview by dragging myself off-topic and into an argument. Point is, yes, outside the US, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Anglosphere, approximately half the world has some kind of left-wing views. Probably as many people have a hobby someone might embarrass them about. It's just not very common in polite company, in most cultures (where I live now it's downright common), to bring up this kind of out-of-work stuff as part of a job interview. As to the anime, I once mentioned in a daily SCRUM meeting that I wanted to get done a meeting with my team leader before 5:30 because I wanted to get to an anime club at 6PM. A senior colleague, who I really do like and admire most of the time, said that Rule 1 of Anime Club is never to talk about Anime Club. This man was a professional software engineer, working in a software company, who had himself sold bootlegged imported anime back in the '90s as a side gig, and here he was engaging in geek-shaming. That was one of the many things which made me feel deeply, deeply uncomfortable in that workplace, the other one being the fact that many people there openly and enthusiastically brought up their right-wing libertarian views (without my prompting, this was between other person 1 and other person 2) during work hours. Overall, the various little details I hadn't detected at the interview eventually added up to a gestalt feeling that the place had the company culture of a particularly right-wing frat-house. I didn't last long there before leaving... on good terms with everyone, but feeling uncomfortable and ashamed nonetheless of leaving a job too early-in. Hmm.... which means that for small companies like that one, you've actually got a very good point. If I bring up something controversial or unusual and the interviewer can't accept that I have views and hobbies outside work which he/she deliberately asked to hear about (provided I don't go into some boring technical lecture on an obscure topic in Computer Science I like or a physics discovery I don't actually understand nearly as well as I think I do), then it's almost definitely not a good match of a place to work for me. The model just breaks down when we're talking about large companies, or places that have a lot of good going for them outside their company culture.
mhurron 14y ago
> Why would you be so afraid to talk about them? Presumably because you want the job. You wouldn't want to talk about them for the same reasons you wouldn't bring up religion or politics or any other hotly contested subject. I like Anime, I watch My Little Pony, but I wouldn't bring either up in an interview. Why? Because I know what most of the rest of the world thinks of me with just those two statements. I have MLP shirts, my wife knows people that said 'If I saw a grown man walking around with one of them on I would take my children somewhere away from that pedophile.' That is basically verbatim, with no exaggeration. I am not ashamed of my interests, but I am not mentioning them in an interview. Of course, I'm also not looking for a job to stand in for a social club either. The only 'fit' I am interested in is can I do the job and are my co-workers not idiots.
- eli_gottlieb 14y ago
  My Little Pony was going to be the next item on my list after "anime", actually. It's exactly the kind of completely harmless thing with nasty social stigma I was thinking about.
philwelch 14y ago
> It is a reasonable position that if you have no interests, or hobbies, or any read books at all that you are comfortable talking about with your employer, that you are likely a poor fit for the company. Really? I dunno--I always saw employment as more of a business transaction, and I don't give a damn about the personal lives of those I do business with.
- sadga 14y ago
  That's extreme. You spend over half your life at work. It is personal. The most popular employers make an effort to contribute to employee's personal lives.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    > You spend over half your life at work Well, that depends. 40 hours a week out of 168 is less than 1/4, but it's certainly true that you spend at least half of your weekday, waking life at work. But more pertinently, it should be time that's set aside for work. I don't know why what we do outside of work should even be a factor, or why I should have to share the cultural values of my coworkers. It comes dangerously close to discrimination.
- gizzlon 14y ago
  "Really? I dunno--I always saw employment as more of a business transaction, and I don't give a damn about the personal lives of those I do business with" Well, I think communication is affected by personality "type". So people more "similar" communicate more effectively. If someone is not comfortable talking about anything except work, that says a lot about that person. If what it says is good or bad is another question, but to me it sounds like a boring human being ;)

by cryptoz 14y ago

mappu 14y ago

This is a tangent, but there are several segues you can use to get from anime to a generic technical discussion. Here are my examples: - I wrote a scraper for MyAnimeList.net to an sqlite3 db in order to build a mobile website. - I wrote a shell script that i keep a copy of in each folder for each anime series i watch. When the script runs, it parses its own name as a number and adds one, so that i can easily keep track of what episode i'm up to. I'm sure there are ways to turn almost any controversial hobby into something technical and demonstrable. Even if it's not something that you've built directly - Do you use the MAL Updater? Have you tried out Vocaloid? Using a really interesting playback method (hi10p, lavf, madvr, ...)? You could explain how they work.

eli_gottlieb 14y ago
Ah, but the thing is: I don't have any technical projects related to anime. I currently have two technical projects on slow burn, but neither is anime-related. One of them is a research project, so I can always talk about that at the risk of coming across as single-minded. The other is a bit of software I'd like to turn into an on-the-side lifestyle business.
duskwuff 14y ago
From what I understand, Jason Garrett-Glaser (DarkShikari) got interested in video encoding through the anime scene. He's now the lead developer on X264.
- mappu 14y ago
  Absolutely (although you'll get told off for spelling x264 with a capital X). The `--tune touhou` option is a big giveaway - fascinating to see how an anime-subculture game had such a profound effect, but it's obviously a useful test case for the encoder. My other favourite example in the same vein is Avery Lee of Virtualdub fame (with EA, last i heard?). He maintains some fantastic software and an enthralling blog, and it all comes back to Sailor Moon.

drivingmenuts 14y ago

> hobbies are controversial, or simply derided I think that answers your question. Look, you're asking someone to walk into an interview, with people they do not know, and lay out a portion of their personal life for examination, without any idea of how that information may be used against them. That's pretty unfairly tilted in favor of the company. I, for one, do not discuss my private life in depth in interviews - it's not the company's or the interviewers business to know that, beyond certain legal issues. I may choose to discuss at some point in the future when I better know the person to whom I speak, but until then, it's strictly a professional relationship.

sadga 14y ago
> That's pretty unfairly tilted in favor of the company. You seem to be assuming that the company's goal is to find a reason to reject someone. That's not correct. If anything, it's tilted in favor of candidates that have the same hobbies as interviewers.
- rhizome 14y ago
  Which is still unfair.
- drivingmenuts 14y ago
  No, my assumption is that a potential employer has no right to know anything about me outside of professional qualifications or what may raise legal issues (convictions, credit rating [iffy], or conflicts of interest). My personal life is strictly off-limits until I get to know them. Look, I know it sounds confrontational, and I don't go into interviews expecting a hostile environment. But I also don't go into interviews expecting to speak of anything other than things directly related to the business. I would be very uncomfortable if asked to speak about anything not directly related to the business or business environment there.
  - bduerst 14y ago
    Personality is certainly a legal deciding factor in hiring someone for a position in a company, especially in at-will employment states. It is illegal for a company to not hire on undue reasons such as race, religion, political affiliations, etc., but you are entering into an employment relationship, and it is not unfair to understand more about the person you are paying to work with.

eli_gottlieb 14y ago

I mean this question honestly: are you American? Because back in the States, mentioning that I'm a socialist would bring the reply, "So why are you working in private industry instead of for the government? Are you here to infiltrate our business?", and things of that nature. At that point I'm not explaining anything, I'm in a debate over whether left-wingers are violating our own principles by ever working in a private, capitalist business (the proper answer is, of course we are, but nobody living under capitalism can actually boycott all capitalist enterprises and remain alive day-to-day). At that point, I've failed the interview by dragging myself off-topic and into an argument. Point is, yes, outside the US, and to a lesser extent the rest of the Anglosphere, approximately half the world has some kind of left-wing views. Probably as many people have a hobby someone might embarrass them about. It's just not very common in polite company, in most cultures (where I live now it's downright common), to bring up this kind of out-of-work stuff as part of a job interview. As to the anime, I once mentioned in a daily SCRUM meeting that I wanted to get done a meeting with my team leader before 5:30 because I wanted to get to an anime club at 6PM. A senior colleague, who I really do like and admire most of the time, said that Rule 1 of Anime Club is never to talk about Anime Club. This man was a professional software engineer, working in a software company, who had himself sold bootlegged imported anime back in the '90s as a side gig, and here he was engaging in geek-shaming. That was one of the many things which made me feel deeply, deeply uncomfortable in that workplace, the other one being the fact that many people there openly and enthusiastically brought up their right-wing libertarian views (without my prompting, this was between other person 1 and other person 2) during work hours. Overall, the various little details I hadn't detected at the interview eventually added up to a gestalt feeling that the place had the company culture of a particularly right-wing frat-house. I didn't last long there before leaving... on good terms with everyone, but feeling uncomfortable and ashamed nonetheless of leaving a job too early-in. Hmm.... which means that for small companies like that one, you've actually got a very good point. If I bring up something controversial or unusual and the interviewer can't accept that I have views and hobbies outside work which he/she deliberately asked to hear about (provided I don't go into some boring technical lecture on an obscure topic in Computer Science I like or a physics discovery I don't actually understand nearly as well as I think I do), then it's almost definitely not a good match of a place to work for me. The model just breaks down when we're talking about large companies, or places that have a lot of good going for them outside their company culture.

mhurron 14y ago

> Why would you be so afraid to talk about them? Presumably because you want the job. You wouldn't want to talk about them for the same reasons you wouldn't bring up religion or politics or any other hotly contested subject. I like Anime, I watch My Little Pony, but I wouldn't bring either up in an interview. Why? Because I know what most of the rest of the world thinks of me with just those two statements. I have MLP shirts, my wife knows people that said 'If I saw a grown man walking around with one of them on I would take my children somewhere away from that pedophile.' That is basically verbatim, with no exaggeration. I am not ashamed of my interests, but I am not mentioning them in an interview. Of course, I'm also not looking for a job to stand in for a social club either. The only 'fit' I am interested in is can I do the job and are my co-workers not idiots.

eli_gottlieb 14y ago
My Little Pony was going to be the next item on my list after "anime", actually. It's exactly the kind of completely harmless thing with nasty social stigma I was thinking about.

philwelch 14y ago

> It is a reasonable position that if you have no interests, or hobbies, or any read books at all that you are comfortable talking about with your employer, that you are likely a poor fit for the company. Really? I dunno--I always saw employment as more of a business transaction, and I don't give a damn about the personal lives of those I do business with.

sadga 14y ago
That's extreme. You spend over half your life at work. It is personal. The most popular employers make an effort to contribute to employee's personal lives.
- philwelch 14y ago
  > You spend over half your life at work Well, that depends. 40 hours a week out of 168 is less than 1/4, but it's certainly true that you spend at least half of your weekday, waking life at work. But more pertinently, it should be time that's set aside for work. I don't know why what we do outside of work should even be a factor, or why I should have to share the cultural values of my coworkers. It comes dangerously close to discrimination.
gizzlon 14y ago
"Really? I dunno--I always saw employment as more of a business transaction, and I don't give a damn about the personal lives of those I do business with" Well, I think communication is affected by personality "type". So people more "similar" communicate more effectively. If someone is not comfortable talking about anything except work, that says a lot about that person. If what it says is good or bad is another question, but to me it sounds like a boring human being ;)