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Zig is the language that was intentionally made to fail and error out on windows carriage returns instead of parsing them like every language ever made. They ma

Zig is the language that was intentionally made to fail and error out on windows carriage returns instead of parsing them like every language ever made. They made a version for windows and then made it not work with every windows text editor. Their answer was to 'get better text editors' or 'make a preprocessing program to strip out carriage returns' or 'don't use windows' (they had a windows executable). This is not a group with community or pragmatism from the start.

crystal_revenge 11mo ago
In all seriousness, this comment really makes me want to try out Zig!
- CyberDildonics 11mo ago
  You want a language that releases a compiler on a specific platform then intentionally breaks it for everyone on something trivial just to troll and irritate them?
  - inferiorhuman 11mo ago
    Last I checked even Apple migrated to LF. Perhaps it's time for Windows to stop being the odd man out? Regardless: not work with every windows text editor Last I checked both Visual Studio Code and Notepad++ can both make line endings configurable. That covers a plurality of use cases. Even the built-in Notepad supports using CR or LF only for going on eight years now.
    - CyberDildonics 11mo ago
      Perhaps it's time for Windows to stop being the odd man out? This is the same nonsense rationalizations that zig gave. Windows is the odd man out. If you want to release something on windows you match an extra byte on the ends of lines. It isn't that hard and even the simplest toy language does it. It's just part of line splitting, it isn't even something that happens at the language stage. Last I checked both Visual Studio Code and Notepad++ can both make line endings configurable. Last time I checked it was totally unnecessary because no other language releases for a platform and tries to punish their users. Options like that are to make files match while being worked on for different platforms, not so that a compiler doesn't try to punish and troll its users for using it.
      - crystal_revenge 11mo ago
        > This is the same nonsense rationalizations that zig gave. I'm guessing you didn't live through the early days of webdev when you had to jump through ridiculous hoops just to support IE. At least back then there was the excuse that IE had the lions share of the market and many corporate users. The industry wide acceptance of supporting IE majorly held back what websites/apps were capable of being. Around 2012ish (right as I was leaving webdev) more and more major teams started to stop supporting earlier broken versions of IE (this was largely empowered by the rising popularity of Chrome). This had a major impact on improving the state of web applications, and also got MS to seriously improve their web browser. Moves like this one by the Zig team are the only way you're going to push Microsoft to improve the situation. Now you may claim "but Windows is 70% of users!" but this issue doesn't impact anyone wanting to run Zig applications, only those writing them. If you're an inexperienced dev that's super curious about Zig, this type of error might be another good nudge that maybe Windows isn't the OS you want to be working on.
        CyberDildonics 11mo ago
        Now you may claim "but Windows is 70% of users!" but this issue doesn't impact anyone wanting to run Zig applications, only those writing them. No one is confused about how a compiler works. Those people being intentionally trolled are called your users when you make a language. If you're an inexperienced dev that's super curious about Zig, this type of error might be another good nudge that maybe Windows isn't the OS you want to be working on.m Then why did they make a windows version? Any normal person just sees that they shouldn't invest time in a language intentionally annoying it's own users for trying it out. You still haven't come up with any explanation, your whole tangent about internet explorer has no relevance. There isn't one part of your comment that makes sense. Why would you even care about other people's OS and text editors? What kind of fanaticism would lead to wanting to use a language because they intentionally annoy users of something you aren't even involved in? The whole thing is basically a case of "this things doesn't stand on any merits, I've just decided that I don't like certain people and they did something to upset them even though they are really just shooting themselves in the foot".
      - 11mo ago
    - ekipan 10mo ago
      Hard agree. Literally every Windows editor I've ever used, except Notepad, allows me to configure it to save CRLF or LF or sometimes even CR files. And I always just leave it on LF because it's easier. Old Notepad support should not be a priority for a language implementer. Get a real text editor, they're varied and plentiful. This was always a non-issue drudged up by nobody actually interested in using Zig and so it was rightfully ignored.
  - crystal_revenge 11mo ago
    I like a language that aggressively discourages writing code in Notepad on Windows.
    - CyberDildonics 11mo ago
      Every text editor on windows adds a carriage return by default. You haven't given any actual reasons this makes sense, if you don't like windows why would you be using it in the first place? Why would you care what text editor people use? Why would it be ok to release something on a platform just to annoy your own users?
      - jpfromlondon 11mo ago
        >Every text editor on windows adds a carriage return by default. Either you should know your tool well enough to turn it off, or tools shouldn't make obscure changes to the output that the user did not specify, either way Zig is absolutely correct in not allowing for either case, I wasn't aware of this but it makes me even more convinced of their principles. The expurgation of "losers" less so.
        CyberDildonics 10mo ago
        Either you should know your tool well enough to turn it off, Everyone can do that and by saying this you have already missed the point. You think literally all windows text is "obscure changes to the output"? Have you ever used windows? All text you have ever saved has a carriage return in it. Zig is absolutely correct in not allowing for either case Then why does every other language, text editor and text tool in existence deal with this single extra character? I wasn't aware of this but it makes me even more convinced of their principles. Which are what exactly? Making a windows version that doesn't work to intentionally annoy their users? There is no rationalization you can come up with that isn't hypocritical here unless you admit that you just like malice towards windows users, because that's all it is. The expurgation of "losers" less so. Who are losers here? Zig users who tried it on windows or people who know what a carriage return is?
blibble 11mo ago
that's amateur level anti-windows user much better to put a colon in a filename, or call part of your toolchain "aux.exe" https://help.interfaceware.com/v6/windows-reserved-file-names https://help.interfaceware.com/v6/windows-reserved-file-name... works like a treat
- integralid 11mo ago
  Related: aux.c in the kennel source https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68981 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68981
mistercheph 11mo ago
Use a real operating system and problem solved?
- CyberDildonics 11mo ago
  Is this directed at Zig? They're the ones that released a windows executable.
thrwaway3243 11mo ago
At least, this change will make source files not portable, which is obviously bad.

crystal_revenge 11mo ago

In all seriousness, this comment really makes me want to try out Zig!

CyberDildonics 11mo ago
You want a language that releases a compiler on a specific platform then intentionally breaks it for everyone on something trivial just to troll and irritate them?
- inferiorhuman 11mo ago
  Last I checked even Apple migrated to LF. Perhaps it's time for Windows to stop being the odd man out? Regardless: not work with every windows text editor Last I checked both Visual Studio Code and Notepad++ can both make line endings configurable. That covers a plurality of use cases. Even the built-in Notepad supports using CR or LF only for going on eight years now.
  - CyberDildonics 11mo ago
    Perhaps it's time for Windows to stop being the odd man out? This is the same nonsense rationalizations that zig gave. Windows is the odd man out. If you want to release something on windows you match an extra byte on the ends of lines. It isn't that hard and even the simplest toy language does it. It's just part of line splitting, it isn't even something that happens at the language stage. Last I checked both Visual Studio Code and Notepad++ can both make line endings configurable. Last time I checked it was totally unnecessary because no other language releases for a platform and tries to punish their users. Options like that are to make files match while being worked on for different platforms, not so that a compiler doesn't try to punish and troll its users for using it.
    - crystal_revenge 11mo ago
      > This is the same nonsense rationalizations that zig gave. I'm guessing you didn't live through the early days of webdev when you had to jump through ridiculous hoops just to support IE. At least back then there was the excuse that IE had the lions share of the market and many corporate users. The industry wide acceptance of supporting IE majorly held back what websites/apps were capable of being. Around 2012ish (right as I was leaving webdev) more and more major teams started to stop supporting earlier broken versions of IE (this was largely empowered by the rising popularity of Chrome). This had a major impact on improving the state of web applications, and also got MS to seriously improve their web browser. Moves like this one by the Zig team are the only way you're going to push Microsoft to improve the situation. Now you may claim "but Windows is 70% of users!" but this issue doesn't impact anyone wanting to run Zig applications, only those writing them. If you're an inexperienced dev that's super curious about Zig, this type of error might be another good nudge that maybe Windows isn't the OS you want to be working on.
      - CyberDildonics 11mo ago
        Now you may claim "but Windows is 70% of users!" but this issue doesn't impact anyone wanting to run Zig applications, only those writing them. No one is confused about how a compiler works. Those people being intentionally trolled are called your users when you make a language. If you're an inexperienced dev that's super curious about Zig, this type of error might be another good nudge that maybe Windows isn't the OS you want to be working on.m Then why did they make a windows version? Any normal person just sees that they shouldn't invest time in a language intentionally annoying it's own users for trying it out. You still haven't come up with any explanation, your whole tangent about internet explorer has no relevance. There isn't one part of your comment that makes sense. Why would you even care about other people's OS and text editors? What kind of fanaticism would lead to wanting to use a language because they intentionally annoy users of something you aren't even involved in? The whole thing is basically a case of "this things doesn't stand on any merits, I've just decided that I don't like certain people and they did something to upset them even though they are really just shooting themselves in the foot".
    - 11mo ago
  - ekipan 10mo ago
    Hard agree. Literally every Windows editor I've ever used, except Notepad, allows me to configure it to save CRLF or LF or sometimes even CR files. And I always just leave it on LF because it's easier. Old Notepad support should not be a priority for a language implementer. Get a real text editor, they're varied and plentiful. This was always a non-issue drudged up by nobody actually interested in using Zig and so it was rightfully ignored.
- crystal_revenge 11mo ago
  I like a language that aggressively discourages writing code in Notepad on Windows.
  - CyberDildonics 11mo ago
    Every text editor on windows adds a carriage return by default. You haven't given any actual reasons this makes sense, if you don't like windows why would you be using it in the first place? Why would you care what text editor people use? Why would it be ok to release something on a platform just to annoy your own users?
    - jpfromlondon 11mo ago
      >Every text editor on windows adds a carriage return by default. Either you should know your tool well enough to turn it off, or tools shouldn't make obscure changes to the output that the user did not specify, either way Zig is absolutely correct in not allowing for either case, I wasn't aware of this but it makes me even more convinced of their principles. The expurgation of "losers" less so.
      - CyberDildonics 10mo ago
        Either you should know your tool well enough to turn it off, Everyone can do that and by saying this you have already missed the point. You think literally all windows text is "obscure changes to the output"? Have you ever used windows? All text you have ever saved has a carriage return in it. Zig is absolutely correct in not allowing for either case Then why does every other language, text editor and text tool in existence deal with this single extra character? I wasn't aware of this but it makes me even more convinced of their principles. Which are what exactly? Making a windows version that doesn't work to intentionally annoy their users? There is no rationalization you can come up with that isn't hypocritical here unless you admit that you just like malice towards windows users, because that's all it is. The expurgation of "losers" less so. Who are losers here? Zig users who tried it on windows or people who know what a carriage return is?

blibble 11mo ago

that's amateur level anti-windows user much better to put a colon in a filename, or call part of your toolchain "aux.exe" https://help.interfaceware.com/v6/windows-reserved-file-names https://help.interfaceware.com/v6/windows-reserved-file-name... works like a treat

integralid 11mo ago
Related: aux.c in the kennel source https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68981 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=68981

mistercheph 11mo ago

Use a real operating system and problem solved?

CyberDildonics 11mo ago
Is this directed at Zig? They're the ones that released a windows executable.

thrwaway3243 11mo ago

At least, this change will make source files not portable, which is obviously bad.