3 ms·

I'd love getting rid of all the weird symbols in favor of clear text functions or whatever. As someone who never learnt all the weird symbols its really prevent

by zwnow 11mo ago

I'd love getting rid of all the weird symbols in favor of clear text functions or whatever. As someone who never learnt all the weird symbols its really preventing me from getting into math again... It is just not intuitive.

Jensson 11mo ago
Those are used since it makes things easier, if you write everything out basically nobody would manage to learn math, that is how it used to be and then everything got shortened and suddenly average people could learn calculus.
- zwnow 11mo ago
  Yea because hieroglyphs are more understandable than the name of a function
  - Jensson 11mo ago
    That is exactly it, a long text is much harder to understand than a one liner, we see that time and time again in problem solving if you write the same problem as a long text many fewer students manage to solve it than if you write it as a one liner.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - SetTheorist 11mo ago
    There is an inherent complexity in a lot of mathematics. The compact notation makes it much easier (or even possible) to understand what is going on. Compare something like equals(integral(divide(exponentiate(negate(divide(square(var),2))),sqrt(multiply(2,constant_pi))),var,negate(infinity),infinity),1) vs $$\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{e^{-x^2/2}}{\sqrt{2\pi}}dx = 1$$ (imagine the actual generated mathematical formula here :-/ ) it is infinitely easier to grok what is going on using symbolic notation after a minimal amount of learning.
- abraxas 11mo ago
  There has to be a happy medium between the tersness of the current notation systems and the verbosity of code-like expressions. We just need to rethink this so more people can learn it. Math still stands a bit like writing did in ancient culture. It's a domain reserved for a few high priests inducted into the craft and completely inaccessible to everyone else.
  - gjulianm 11mo ago
    I wonder why so many people are under the impression that the notation is what is keeping them away and if only the notation was easier then the underlying concepts would be clear. For example, if you don't know what the pullback of a differential form is, it doesn't matter if I write it in clear text or if I write the common notation φ^* ω. > It's a domain reserved for a few high priests inducted into the craft and completely inaccessible to everyone else. It's a domain reserved for people who want to learn it, and there's ton of resources to learn it. Expecting to understand it without learning it does not make any sense.
    - zwnow 11mo ago
      φ^* ω is just 2 weird symbols. There are tons of symbols to learn. I gave up trying to learn the Russian alphabet after a few days so why do u think I am capable of memorizing the Greek one? The theories are learnable, making sense of all the weird symbols is what's breaking my brain. I tried to get into set theory thrice now, not happening with all the math lingo, hieroglyphs and dry ass content. Learning can be incredibly fun if it was designed fun. Math is a dry and slow process. Make it fun, make it readable and people will be capable to learn it easier.
      - gjulianm 11mo ago
        > why do u think I am capable of memorizing the Greek one No one memorizes the Greek alphabet. We just learn it as we go because it’s useful to have different types of letters to refer to different types of objects. That’s it. > I tried to get into set theory thrice now, not happening with all the math lingo, hieroglyphs and dry ass content. That sounds like you’re trying to learn a specific field without actually having any of the prerequisites to learn it. I don’t know what you’re specifically referring to when you say “set theory” as that’s an incredibly wide field, and depending on what you’re trying to learn it can be quite technical. > Learning can be incredibly fun if it was designed fun. Math is a dry and slow process. This sounds like someone complaining that getting to run a marathon is tiresome and hard. Yes, teaching mathematics can always be improved and nothing is perfect, but it will still be hard work.
gjulianm 11mo ago
I'm not sure that symbols are the thing actually keeping you away. Clear text functions might not be as clear, as it will be harder to scan and it will still contain names that you might not be familiar with. Those "weird symbols" are not there because people liked to make weird symbols. No one likes them, it's just that it makes things easier to understand.

by zwnow 11mo ago

Jensson 11mo ago

Those are used since it makes things easier, if you write everything out basically nobody would manage to learn math, that is how it used to be and then everything got shortened and suddenly average people could learn calculus.

zwnow 11mo ago
Yea because hieroglyphs are more understandable than the name of a function
- Jensson 11mo ago
  That is exactly it, a long text is much harder to understand than a one liner, we see that time and time again in problem solving if you write the same problem as a long text many fewer students manage to solve it than if you write it as a one liner.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- SetTheorist 11mo ago
  There is an inherent complexity in a lot of mathematics. The compact notation makes it much easier (or even possible) to understand what is going on. Compare something like equals(integral(divide(exponentiate(negate(divide(square(var),2))),sqrt(multiply(2,constant_pi))),var,negate(infinity),infinity),1) vs $$\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{e^{-x^2/2}}{\sqrt{2\pi}}dx = 1$$ (imagine the actual generated mathematical formula here :-/ ) it is infinitely easier to grok what is going on using symbolic notation after a minimal amount of learning.
abraxas 11mo ago
There has to be a happy medium between the tersness of the current notation systems and the verbosity of code-like expressions. We just need to rethink this so more people can learn it. Math still stands a bit like writing did in ancient culture. It's a domain reserved for a few high priests inducted into the craft and completely inaccessible to everyone else.
- gjulianm 11mo ago
  I wonder why so many people are under the impression that the notation is what is keeping them away and if only the notation was easier then the underlying concepts would be clear. For example, if you don't know what the pullback of a differential form is, it doesn't matter if I write it in clear text or if I write the common notation φ^* ω. > It's a domain reserved for a few high priests inducted into the craft and completely inaccessible to everyone else. It's a domain reserved for people who want to learn it, and there's ton of resources to learn it. Expecting to understand it without learning it does not make any sense.
  - zwnow 11mo ago
    φ^* ω is just 2 weird symbols. There are tons of symbols to learn. I gave up trying to learn the Russian alphabet after a few days so why do u think I am capable of memorizing the Greek one? The theories are learnable, making sense of all the weird symbols is what's breaking my brain. I tried to get into set theory thrice now, not happening with all the math lingo, hieroglyphs and dry ass content. Learning can be incredibly fun if it was designed fun. Math is a dry and slow process. Make it fun, make it readable and people will be capable to learn it easier.
    - gjulianm 11mo ago
      > why do u think I am capable of memorizing the Greek one No one memorizes the Greek alphabet. We just learn it as we go because it’s useful to have different types of letters to refer to different types of objects. That’s it. > I tried to get into set theory thrice now, not happening with all the math lingo, hieroglyphs and dry ass content. That sounds like you’re trying to learn a specific field without actually having any of the prerequisites to learn it. I don’t know what you’re specifically referring to when you say “set theory” as that’s an incredibly wide field, and depending on what you’re trying to learn it can be quite technical. > Learning can be incredibly fun if it was designed fun. Math is a dry and slow process. This sounds like someone complaining that getting to run a marathon is tiresome and hard. Yes, teaching mathematics can always be improved and nothing is perfect, but it will still be hard work.

gjulianm 11mo ago

I'm not sure that symbols are the thing actually keeping you away. Clear text functions might not be as clear, as it will be harder to scan and it will still contain names that you might not be familiar with. Those "weird symbols" are not there because people liked to make weird symbols. No one likes them, it's just that it makes things easier to understand.