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I am not convinced of this. Being rude and insulting someone’s intelligence is rarely a good trait. Linus got away with it due to the unique circumstances: lead

I am not convinced of this. Being rude and insulting someone’s intelligence is rarely a good trait. Linus got away with it due to the unique circumstances: leader of an incredibly popular open source project and a gatekeeper to a lot of access to it. My argument against how he handles things has always been that while it may seem effective, we do not know how much more effective he would be if he did not curse people out for being dumb fucks. And it doesn’t seem like this is a requirement for the job: lots of other project leaders treat others with courtesy and respect and it doesn’t seem to cause issues. The reality is that it is easy to wish more people were verbally abusive to others when it isn’t directed at you. But soon as you are on the receiving end of it, especially as a volunteer, there is a greater than not chance that you will be less likely to want to continue contributing.

infecto 10mo ago
I think this is a good way to put it and I agree with it. Linus is a jerk and I would never want to work with him. Doubly so with zig maintainers who call other groups of people losers or monkeys. Shows a clear lack of maturity and ability to think.
- IgorPartola 10mo ago
  Eh. Linus has a long history of abusive behavior towards other Linux contributors but also apparently apologized for it and started amending his ways. The Zig person I do not know by reputation, let alone in person. One post that he later chose to amend based on feedback is not enough for me to pass that kind of judgement. If anything, the fact that he updated it shows the opposite of lack of maturity. Adults can get frustrated. What they do with it is what matters.
  - infecto 10mo ago
    Adults don’t call people losers or monkeys in social media. I am not passing judgement, it is simply not acceptable.
    - IgorPartola 10mo ago
      Really? You can’t think of any circumstances when it would be appropriate? More to the point, if someone does it once and then stops, should we exclude this person from society forever? Remember that only the Siths deal in absolutes.
      - infecto 10mo ago
        Zero clue what your point is so please help me understand. I was agreeing with your stance and adding my own anecdote that it’s a turnoff with the way those posts were originally formatted. Not people I would want to work with. If you do that’s fine. This is not star wars and simply my own choice as it’s everyone else. I also cannot think of a time in my adult life I wanted to call out a group of people as losers or monkeys i n public.
        IgorPartola 10mo ago
        My point is that Linus and the Zig guy are in different categories in my mind. I think it is a bit naive to lump them into the same category. I would definitely classify the tiki torch wielding white nationalists as losers publicly, for example. In fact I have a hard time thinking of a better term for them. It could also apply to the fairly famous liar and criminal, the disgraced Congressman George Santos. Or any person who decides to flash kids at a playground, or beats his wife and children. I think the Zig guy was a little over-dramatic with his initial post. He did change his mind, so in my book that's better than not. Linus did too, just after many years of bad behavior. My point is that your replies were painting the world with only black and white and there is a lot of gray area in between. Sometimes public shame is a valid way to do discourse. Often times it isn't. But it's not a "always" or "never" thing.
        infecto 10mo ago
        I did not realize we were lumping Microsoft engineers alongside white nationalists and pedos. Sure folks like that I can see people using descriptions like that.

infecto 10mo ago

I think this is a good way to put it and I agree with it. Linus is a jerk and I would never want to work with him. Doubly so with zig maintainers who call other groups of people losers or monkeys. Shows a clear lack of maturity and ability to think.

IgorPartola 10mo ago
Eh. Linus has a long history of abusive behavior towards other Linux contributors but also apparently apologized for it and started amending his ways. The Zig person I do not know by reputation, let alone in person. One post that he later chose to amend based on feedback is not enough for me to pass that kind of judgement. If anything, the fact that he updated it shows the opposite of lack of maturity. Adults can get frustrated. What they do with it is what matters.
- infecto 10mo ago
  Adults don’t call people losers or monkeys in social media. I am not passing judgement, it is simply not acceptable.
  - IgorPartola 10mo ago
    Really? You can’t think of any circumstances when it would be appropriate? More to the point, if someone does it once and then stops, should we exclude this person from society forever? Remember that only the Siths deal in absolutes.
    - infecto 10mo ago
      Zero clue what your point is so please help me understand. I was agreeing with your stance and adding my own anecdote that it’s a turnoff with the way those posts were originally formatted. Not people I would want to work with. If you do that’s fine. This is not star wars and simply my own choice as it’s everyone else. I also cannot think of a time in my adult life I wanted to call out a group of people as losers or monkeys i n public.
      - IgorPartola 10mo ago
        My point is that Linus and the Zig guy are in different categories in my mind. I think it is a bit naive to lump them into the same category. I would definitely classify the tiki torch wielding white nationalists as losers publicly, for example. In fact I have a hard time thinking of a better term for them. It could also apply to the fairly famous liar and criminal, the disgraced Congressman George Santos. Or any person who decides to flash kids at a playground, or beats his wife and children. I think the Zig guy was a little over-dramatic with his initial post. He did change his mind, so in my book that's better than not. Linus did too, just after many years of bad behavior. My point is that your replies were painting the world with only black and white and there is a lot of gray area in between. Sometimes public shame is a valid way to do discourse. Often times it isn't. But it's not a "always" or "never" thing.
        infecto 10mo ago
        I did not realize we were lumping Microsoft engineers alongside white nationalists and pedos. Sure folks like that I can see people using descriptions like that.