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The societal impact of quantum computing would be immense -- the entire security infrastructure of the web would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. However

by cs702 14y ago

The societal impact of quantum computing would be immense -- the entire security infrastructure of the web would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. However, many experts -- including Scott Aaronson (who is mentioned in the article) -- have cast doubt on D-Wave's claims, because the company has not yet proved that its machines are producing results by exploiting quantum phenomena like particle entanglement and superposition. In other words, D-Wave's devices may very well be different, but still classical, computers. D-Wave's engineers acknowledge as much: they are quoted in the article stating that "they don't yet know for sure what's happening inside the chip." The fact that Bezos, a very smart guy, has invested in D-Wave, has changed my perception of the company from "these are likely crazy people making outrageous claims" to "maybe these guys are unto something." Exciting and a bit scary. Time will tell.

cynicalkane 14y ago
I don't think the quote they don't yet know for sure what's happening inside the chip means what you think it means. I think in context this is an attempt to describe how quantum algorithms work, where they need a nonobserved superposition to operate. They may well not understand their chips, but that's not supported by that quote in that context. You don't need to know the exact operations involved to solve an optimization problem with quantum computers (or for that matter with classical ones).
- dumb-dumb 14y ago
  "means what you think it means" Can we find some other way to convey this message without using that same tired old phrase over and over and over again? As soon as I see this phrase by brain automatically shuts down because it tells me the author lacks creativity. Are people who post to nerd forums really that deficient in English language skills? Or are they just hoplessly compelled to mimic the language used by others? "means what you think it means" is like some kind of lingusitic meme. Future posters: Let's be creative and devise another way to state this. This comment is not personal. It is just a randomexample of a phenomena. Many, many, many nerds use this phrase. I'm just tired of reading it. I can't be the only one. Next time you are tempted to type "doesn't mean what you think it means", please stop yourself. Write it some other way.
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  - dmorgan 14y ago
    >Can we find some other way to convey this message without using that same tired old phrase over and over and over again? As soon as I see this phrase by brain automatically shuts down because it tells me the author lacks creativity. You keep using this word "creativity". I don't think it means what you think it means. Not to mention that he didn't want to be "creative", he just wanted to make a specific point. Do you avoid common programming idioms because they've been "done before" or do you just use what is more effective for what you want to build? >Are people who post to nerd forums really that deficient in English language skills? Or are they just hoplessly compelled to mimic the language used by others? Or do they merely want to use the colloquiums of their day, their trade and their pop culture? How about that? >Future posters: Let's be creative and devise another way to state this. Or let's not. I can understand the intention and the purpose of that phrase in less time than it takes to even read it properly (because I can pattern-recognition the letter shapes it consists off). It's a very common and well understood idiom. It's also kind of fun.
    - dumb-dumb 14y ago
      Oh man, I lol'd when you wrote "don't think it means what you think it means". Whether it was intended or not, you have cured my annoyance. I guess a laugh was all that was needed. Thank you! Carry on with the mindless memes. (I did initially get an upvote for stating the annoyance, so anyone else who is annoyed by this meme, good luck. I feel your pain.) When I said creative, I meant creative use of language. Yes, memes are extraordinarily popular in forums like Slashdot, Reddit and HN. But I only attribute creativity to the person who created the meme, not the ones who use it incessantly... unless they use it in some creative way, as you did (if indeed you were making a joke). Idioms. Yes. I take your point. I never looked at memes that way, although I have certainly relied on idioms for learning computer languages.
greenmountin 14y ago
I think "don't yet know for sure what's happening" is a bit misleading to the casual reader. If they're actually being honest it's more like: don't know that anything "special" is happening. Frankly, their devices just aren't quantum computers until they can show they perform quantum mechanically. Until then, they are just hype. Bezos' investment is perfectly rational as an affiliation move -- if he was serious, he'd donate to, say, the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo where real quantum computer development is taking place. But the press releases for their accomplishments get several orders of magnitude less attention, so why bother? (or, is it that you just can't buy in to IBM -- also real work -- or HRL) Their job ads [1-3] focus is very telling to me; which are mostly for new algorithms people, with long unfilled placements for physicists and materials engineers. The big development in QC this decade has been that "materials matter", and that you can't just throw qubits together willy-nilly. D-Wave scaled their qubit count (see the ridiculous "Rose's Law" slide [4]) basically by ignoring all these problems. [1-3] http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/20120627_d-wave_algorithms_researcher_job_ad.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/20120627_d-wave_algorithms_... http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/senior_engineer_2011.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/senior_engineer_2011.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/uploads/20091026_Design_Engineer.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/uploads/20091026_Design_Engineer.pdf (http://www.dwavesys.com/en/careers.html http://www.dwavesys.com/en/careers.html) [4] http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dev-tutorial-hardware.html http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dev-tutorial-hardware.html
- neworder 14y ago
  Just a side note - you're probably conflating Perimeter Institute (www.perimeterinstitute.ca) and Institute for Quantum Computing (http://iqc.uwaterloo.ca/ http://iqc.uwaterloo.ca/). Both are in Waterloo, but it's the latter that is involved in developing quantum computing implementations.
tisme 14y ago
Bezos may be a very smart guy, but I don't see - short of him becoming an expert in quantum physics - how his investing or not investing in this company means anything with respect to them being onto something.
quonn 14y ago
> the entire security infrastructure of the web would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. I don't think so. It would probably suffice to add NTRU support to SSL.
- fjorder 14y ago
  This is the first I've heard of NTRU. Has it been proven immune to quantum computational attacks, or has an efficient attack algorithm just not been found yet? The former would be world-shaking, so that's probably not the case unless I've been living under a rock. The latter just means that it might be safe, but it might be broken at any time if somebody comes up with the right algorithm. If you're making long-term information infrastructure plans that's something you have to account for.
  - quonn 14y ago
    Yes, but that problem also exists without quantum computers (qc). Advances may break existing crypto, even if proven secure under certain assumptions. This is because the advance may introduce a shortcut that proves the assumptions are unsufficient. NTRU has been proven safe from known quantum attacks and has been around for some time. There certainly were efforts to attack NTRU using qc. If it would be included in OpenSSL and NSS, it is likely those efforts would be intensified. I therefore suggest that getting it into those libraries may be the best we can do right now.
  - quonn 14y ago
    See http://www.pqcrypto.org/www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9783540887010-c1.pdf http://www.pqcrypto.org/www.springer.com/cda/content/documen... for more info.
zmanian 14y ago
The largest societal impact of quantum computing would be to solve the 3d structure of biological molecules from sequence data. This would be produce an almost immediate revolution in all areas of biotechnology whose implications would be difficult to predict.
jrabone 14y ago
But the problem (much like a qubit) can go one of two ways. Either D-Wave have built a 512-qubit quantum computer - in which case the CIA / NSA will be strongly suggesting that they don't tell anyone, or they haven't - in which case they won't be telling anyone. The fact that they're not supplying any proof, therefore, contains no useful information.

by cs702 14y ago

cynicalkane 14y ago

I don't think the quote they don't yet know for sure what's happening inside the chip means what you think it means. I think in context this is an attempt to describe how quantum algorithms work, where they need a nonobserved superposition to operate. They may well not understand their chips, but that's not supported by that quote in that context. You don't need to know the exact operations involved to solve an optimization problem with quantum computers (or for that matter with classical ones).

dumb-dumb 14y ago
"means what you think it means" Can we find some other way to convey this message without using that same tired old phrase over and over and over again? As soon as I see this phrase by brain automatically shuts down because it tells me the author lacks creativity. Are people who post to nerd forums really that deficient in English language skills? Or are they just hoplessly compelled to mimic the language used by others? "means what you think it means" is like some kind of lingusitic meme. Future posters: Let's be creative and devise another way to state this. This comment is not personal. It is just a randomexample of a phenomena. Many, many, many nerds use this phrase. I'm just tired of reading it. I can't be the only one. Next time you are tempted to type "doesn't mean what you think it means", please stop yourself. Write it some other way.
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- dmorgan 14y ago
  >Can we find some other way to convey this message without using that same tired old phrase over and over and over again? As soon as I see this phrase by brain automatically shuts down because it tells me the author lacks creativity. You keep using this word "creativity". I don't think it means what you think it means. Not to mention that he didn't want to be "creative", he just wanted to make a specific point. Do you avoid common programming idioms because they've been "done before" or do you just use what is more effective for what you want to build? >Are people who post to nerd forums really that deficient in English language skills? Or are they just hoplessly compelled to mimic the language used by others? Or do they merely want to use the colloquiums of their day, their trade and their pop culture? How about that? >Future posters: Let's be creative and devise another way to state this. Or let's not. I can understand the intention and the purpose of that phrase in less time than it takes to even read it properly (because I can pattern-recognition the letter shapes it consists off). It's a very common and well understood idiom. It's also kind of fun.
  - dumb-dumb 14y ago
    Oh man, I lol'd when you wrote "don't think it means what you think it means". Whether it was intended or not, you have cured my annoyance. I guess a laugh was all that was needed. Thank you! Carry on with the mindless memes. (I did initially get an upvote for stating the annoyance, so anyone else who is annoyed by this meme, good luck. I feel your pain.) When I said creative, I meant creative use of language. Yes, memes are extraordinarily popular in forums like Slashdot, Reddit and HN. But I only attribute creativity to the person who created the meme, not the ones who use it incessantly... unless they use it in some creative way, as you did (if indeed you were making a joke). Idioms. Yes. I take your point. I never looked at memes that way, although I have certainly relied on idioms for learning computer languages.

greenmountin 14y ago

I think "don't yet know for sure what's happening" is a bit misleading to the casual reader. If they're actually being honest it's more like: don't know that anything "special" is happening. Frankly, their devices just aren't quantum computers until they can show they perform quantum mechanically. Until then, they are just hype. Bezos' investment is perfectly rational as an affiliation move -- if he was serious, he'd donate to, say, the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo where real quantum computer development is taking place. But the press releases for their accomplishments get several orders of magnitude less attention, so why bother? (or, is it that you just can't buy in to IBM -- also real work -- or HRL) Their job ads [1-3] focus is very telling to me; which are mostly for new algorithms people, with long unfilled placements for physicists and materials engineers. The big development in QC this decade has been that "materials matter", and that you can't just throw qubits together willy-nilly. D-Wave scaled their qubit count (see the ridiculous "Rose's Law" slide [4]) basically by ignoring all these problems. [1-3] http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/20120627_d-wave_algorithms_researcher_job_ad.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/20120627_d-wave_algorithms_... http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/senior_engineer_2011.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/en/files/senior_engineer_2011.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/uploads/20091026_Design_Engineer.pdf http://www.dwavesys.com/uploads/20091026_Design_Engineer.pdf (http://www.dwavesys.com/en/careers.html http://www.dwavesys.com/en/careers.html) [4] http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dev-tutorial-hardware.html http://www.dwavesys.com/en/dev-tutorial-hardware.html

neworder 14y ago
Just a side note - you're probably conflating Perimeter Institute (www.perimeterinstitute.ca) and Institute for Quantum Computing (http://iqc.uwaterloo.ca/ http://iqc.uwaterloo.ca/). Both are in Waterloo, but it's the latter that is involved in developing quantum computing implementations.

tisme 14y ago

Bezos may be a very smart guy, but I don't see - short of him becoming an expert in quantum physics - how his investing or not investing in this company means anything with respect to them being onto something.

quonn 14y ago

> the entire security infrastructure of the web would have to be rebuilt from the ground up. I don't think so. It would probably suffice to add NTRU support to SSL.

fjorder 14y ago
This is the first I've heard of NTRU. Has it been proven immune to quantum computational attacks, or has an efficient attack algorithm just not been found yet? The former would be world-shaking, so that's probably not the case unless I've been living under a rock. The latter just means that it might be safe, but it might be broken at any time if somebody comes up with the right algorithm. If you're making long-term information infrastructure plans that's something you have to account for.
- quonn 14y ago
  Yes, but that problem also exists without quantum computers (qc). Advances may break existing crypto, even if proven secure under certain assumptions. This is because the advance may introduce a shortcut that proves the assumptions are unsufficient. NTRU has been proven safe from known quantum attacks and has been around for some time. There certainly were efforts to attack NTRU using qc. If it would be included in OpenSSL and NSS, it is likely those efforts would be intensified. I therefore suggest that getting it into those libraries may be the best we can do right now.
- quonn 14y ago
  See http://www.pqcrypto.org/www.springer.com/cda/content/document/cda_downloaddocument/9783540887010-c1.pdf http://www.pqcrypto.org/www.springer.com/cda/content/documen... for more info.

zmanian 14y ago

The largest societal impact of quantum computing would be to solve the 3d structure of biological molecules from sequence data. This would be produce an almost immediate revolution in all areas of biotechnology whose implications would be difficult to predict.

jrabone 14y ago

But the problem (much like a qubit) can go one of two ways. Either D-Wave have built a 512-qubit quantum computer - in which case the CIA / NSA will be strongly suggesting that they don't tell anyone, or they haven't - in which case they won't be telling anyone. The fact that they're not supplying any proof, therefore, contains no useful information.