4 ms·

It isn't algorithmically generated. I used to spend a lot of time in cyclist circles both IRL and online and there is a very vocal minority of cyclists that bas

It isn't algorithmically generated. I used to spend a lot of time in cyclist circles both IRL and online and there is a very vocal minority of cyclists that basically hate cars and motorists. The stereotype exists for a reason.

oblio 10mo ago
Watch his videos. At some point he basically says: "I don't even love bikes, but they're useful. If I could choose, I would go by public transit everywhere, especially trams". And he has tons of videos where he explains exactly why: 0. Most of everything he publishes refers to urban areas. 1. Bikes are better for society. 2. Public transit is even better for society. 3. Trams are probably the best form of public transportation (again, for society). He's not a recreational cyclist (light road bike, lycra - sports/racing), he's a utility cyclist (big heavy upright bike, regular clothes - take kids to school, commute, do grocery runs).
- WreckVenom 10mo ago
  I am not interested. I've heard many of these arguments before and I made up my mind years ago. I know very well that commuting by bicycle in urban areas is often better. I often was quicker through the traffic on my bike than anything else. However it doesn't mean it is better for society. People have different wants and/or needs. Cycling isn't for everyone and it has some significant downsides. e.g. - I've been injured as a result of a hit and run and I as a result I have a permanent weakness in my right shoulder. - I've had my bicycles stolen and/or vandalised. - I've had to endure very harsh conditions to get home e.g Once I was so cold I thought I was going to threw up, I had appropriate clothing on but I was a little ill and that and the cold almost caused me to faint (I was ~25 at the time). As for public transport. I generally dislike public transport. In the UK the public transport is often late, crowded, dirty (sometimes extremely dirty), potentially dangerous (I've been assaulted and have been witness to them). I spent a good 15 years using public transport and passing my driving license and getting a car was a godsend. > He's not a recreational cyclist (light road bike, lycra - sports/racing), he's a utility cyclist (big heavy upright bike, regular clothes - take kids to school, commute, do grocery runs). There is no problem with recreational cyclists as they do it because they enjoy it. I am one. I have an issue with many of the political/activist cyclists that are very obnoxious about their dislike of cars. I don't want anything to do with them. I also don't like "utility cyclists", because it makes it sound like cycling is a chore when it is quite enjoyable, cheap and relatively safe activity that almost anyone can enjoy.
  - oblio 10mo ago
    > However it doesn't mean it is better for society. People have different wants and/or needs. Are we talking about society or about individuals? Cars are the ultimate expression of individuality, so yes, "People have different wants and/or needs." But for urban areas large amounts of cars are massively detrimental to society. Go watch his videos. Cars have 2 fundamental problems: 1. Physics - you can only fit so many 10sqm rectangles on busy urban roads and densely inhabited areas. At some point those rectangles overflow. Which amusingly in terms of the violence you mentioned for public transportation, frequently leads to road rage. 2. Externalities - cars generate a lot crash victims (inside and especially outside of them), noise pollution, light pollution, particulates (even EVs generate them) and they require a lot of resources to build, maintain, operate, store, dispose of. Both issues can't really be solved, because physics is hard. And it's not for lack of trying to beat back the laws of physics, because politics around the world for the past 80 years have greatly favored cars and car infrastructure. On the other hand, if you've made up your mind years ago, you are truly lost to this debate. I can't change your mind, his videos can't change your mind, this entire discussion is hopeless.
    - WreckVenom 10mo ago
      > Are we talking about society or about individuals? Cars are the ultimate expression of individuality, so yes, "People have different wants and/or needs." Society is made up of individuals. They are not separate things. > 1. Physics - you can only fit so many 10sqm rectangles on busy urban roads and densely inhabited areas. At some point those rectangles overflow. Which amusingly in terms of the violence you mentioned, frequently leads to road rage. There is nothing amusing about being locked in with a group of anti-social yobs on a train and/or bus when you want to get home. Why do people try to twist what was said about the issues with public transport? Do you think you are being clever? This sort of fancy pants rhetorical technique that you are employing is obnoxious. Also I've seen plenty of rage on public transport (I used public transport for 20 years). Far more than any Road Rage which often equates honking and some hand gestures. > On the other hand, if you've made up your mind years ago, you are truly lost to this debate. I can't change your mind, his videos can't change your mind, this entire discussion is hopeless. When I say "I've made up my mind". I specifically mean is "If you want to cycle to work, do so. If you want to take public transport do so". There is nothing stopping you in Europe from doing either. You don't even understand what I am trying to say to you. What I am saying is that I am well aware what the discussion points are, what the arguments are. I am bored of hearing about it. It goes nowhere. I like cycling, motorcycling and driving. I don't have to drive anywhere and I will be taking my 4x4 out on the trail this evening because it is fun. On Sunday I will be taking the Mountain bike out for a spin. BTW, Trams aren't that great BTW. There was a reason they were largely phased out in the UK for Buses. > In which case there is a reason we don't live forever. I'm sure that many of my opinions are detrimental to society, so thankfully I'll make way for others with fresher and hopefully better opinions. People were having many of the same arguments about the same issues back in Ancient Rome as people are making today. So I wouldn't count on that.
4ndrewl 10mo ago
It is. It's only able to drive the engagement that only hatred generates by pitching artificial dichotomies.
- WreckVenom 10mo ago
  No. This has existed well before social media. I have met these people in person. I have gone to their protests (e.g. Critical Mass). These people exist and they believe what they say.
- oblio 10mo ago
  Watch his video. Pick 2-3 at random, be a grown up and ignore the tone of voice and the snarkiness, and see what his points are. They're very solid. Try something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM

oblio 10mo ago

Watch his videos. At some point he basically says: "I don't even love bikes, but they're useful. If I could choose, I would go by public transit everywhere, especially trams". And he has tons of videos where he explains exactly why: 0. Most of everything he publishes refers to urban areas. 1. Bikes are better for society. 2. Public transit is even better for society. 3. Trams are probably the best form of public transportation (again, for society). He's not a recreational cyclist (light road bike, lycra - sports/racing), he's a utility cyclist (big heavy upright bike, regular clothes - take kids to school, commute, do grocery runs).

WreckVenom 10mo ago
I am not interested. I've heard many of these arguments before and I made up my mind years ago. I know very well that commuting by bicycle in urban areas is often better. I often was quicker through the traffic on my bike than anything else. However it doesn't mean it is better for society. People have different wants and/or needs. Cycling isn't for everyone and it has some significant downsides. e.g. - I've been injured as a result of a hit and run and I as a result I have a permanent weakness in my right shoulder. - I've had my bicycles stolen and/or vandalised. - I've had to endure very harsh conditions to get home e.g Once I was so cold I thought I was going to threw up, I had appropriate clothing on but I was a little ill and that and the cold almost caused me to faint (I was ~25 at the time). As for public transport. I generally dislike public transport. In the UK the public transport is often late, crowded, dirty (sometimes extremely dirty), potentially dangerous (I've been assaulted and have been witness to them). I spent a good 15 years using public transport and passing my driving license and getting a car was a godsend. > He's not a recreational cyclist (light road bike, lycra - sports/racing), he's a utility cyclist (big heavy upright bike, regular clothes - take kids to school, commute, do grocery runs). There is no problem with recreational cyclists as they do it because they enjoy it. I am one. I have an issue with many of the political/activist cyclists that are very obnoxious about their dislike of cars. I don't want anything to do with them. I also don't like "utility cyclists", because it makes it sound like cycling is a chore when it is quite enjoyable, cheap and relatively safe activity that almost anyone can enjoy.
- oblio 10mo ago
  > However it doesn't mean it is better for society. People have different wants and/or needs. Are we talking about society or about individuals? Cars are the ultimate expression of individuality, so yes, "People have different wants and/or needs." But for urban areas large amounts of cars are massively detrimental to society. Go watch his videos. Cars have 2 fundamental problems: 1. Physics - you can only fit so many 10sqm rectangles on busy urban roads and densely inhabited areas. At some point those rectangles overflow. Which amusingly in terms of the violence you mentioned for public transportation, frequently leads to road rage. 2. Externalities - cars generate a lot crash victims (inside and especially outside of them), noise pollution, light pollution, particulates (even EVs generate them) and they require a lot of resources to build, maintain, operate, store, dispose of. Both issues can't really be solved, because physics is hard. And it's not for lack of trying to beat back the laws of physics, because politics around the world for the past 80 years have greatly favored cars and car infrastructure. On the other hand, if you've made up your mind years ago, you are truly lost to this debate. I can't change your mind, his videos can't change your mind, this entire discussion is hopeless.
  - WreckVenom 10mo ago
    > Are we talking about society or about individuals? Cars are the ultimate expression of individuality, so yes, "People have different wants and/or needs." Society is made up of individuals. They are not separate things. > 1. Physics - you can only fit so many 10sqm rectangles on busy urban roads and densely inhabited areas. At some point those rectangles overflow. Which amusingly in terms of the violence you mentioned, frequently leads to road rage. There is nothing amusing about being locked in with a group of anti-social yobs on a train and/or bus when you want to get home. Why do people try to twist what was said about the issues with public transport? Do you think you are being clever? This sort of fancy pants rhetorical technique that you are employing is obnoxious. Also I've seen plenty of rage on public transport (I used public transport for 20 years). Far more than any Road Rage which often equates honking and some hand gestures. > On the other hand, if you've made up your mind years ago, you are truly lost to this debate. I can't change your mind, his videos can't change your mind, this entire discussion is hopeless. When I say "I've made up my mind". I specifically mean is "If you want to cycle to work, do so. If you want to take public transport do so". There is nothing stopping you in Europe from doing either. You don't even understand what I am trying to say to you. What I am saying is that I am well aware what the discussion points are, what the arguments are. I am bored of hearing about it. It goes nowhere. I like cycling, motorcycling and driving. I don't have to drive anywhere and I will be taking my 4x4 out on the trail this evening because it is fun. On Sunday I will be taking the Mountain bike out for a spin. BTW, Trams aren't that great BTW. There was a reason they were largely phased out in the UK for Buses. > In which case there is a reason we don't live forever. I'm sure that many of my opinions are detrimental to society, so thankfully I'll make way for others with fresher and hopefully better opinions. People were having many of the same arguments about the same issues back in Ancient Rome as people are making today. So I wouldn't count on that.

4ndrewl 10mo ago

It is. It's only able to drive the engagement that only hatred generates by pitching artificial dichotomies.

WreckVenom 10mo ago
No. This has existed well before social media. I have met these people in person. I have gone to their protests (e.g. Critical Mass). These people exist and they believe what they say.
oblio 10mo ago
Watch his video. Pick 2-3 at random, be a grown up and ignore the tone of voice and the snarkiness, and see what his points are. They're very solid. Try something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM