3 ms·

You can't really compare the two. Vehicle safety regulations might not be able to make up for the USA having stroads and in general bad design. For the same rea

by gblargg 11mo ago

You can't really compare the two. Vehicle safety regulations might not be able to make up for the USA having stroads and in general bad design. For the same reasons trying to move safety standards over could make things even worse than the USA due to them not fitting the conditions.

herbst 11mo ago
Do you actually think that is the case? Because you have big streets and cars, small cars and actual safety standards would make it less safe? That's the most American sentiment I've heard today
- VBprogrammer 11mo ago
  Whether they like it or not, American cars have become a lot more European over the years. I wish I had figures to back it up but from my own anecdotal experience when we traveled to the US when I was young almost every car was different and, for me at least, this made it feel strange and exciting. Taking my own kids back there this year, most of the normal cars were common, or at most variations of the ones from Europe. Even many of the vans and work vehicles are now common European shapes, occasionally with a different badge. Trucks and full size SUVs were the last hold outs of US specific models. Which makes me wonder, are the pedestrian deaths really heavily weighted towards these models? For what it's worth we hired a full sized SUV. There was one point where I was about to drive out of our Villa's driveway when my partner shouted "wait!" There was a 8ish year old kid walking down the sidewalk towards where I was about to cross it who was completely invisible from the driving position. It was actually safer to forward park that thing because the visibility in the reversing camera was much better than driving forward.
  - herbst 11mo ago
    Anecdotally you got a different impression of the cars than 10 or 20 years ago.
    - VBprogrammer 11mo ago
      Yes. Congratulations, it appears you can read.
  - kelnos 11mo ago
    As an American who sometimes travels to Europe and sees and rents cars there, my experience has not matched with yours.
  - silon42 11mo ago
    The problem of poor visibility due to fat A-pillars is not limited to large SUVs, it's a problem on normal cars too.
    - VBprogrammer 11mo ago
      Fat A-pillars is a noticeable problem on modern cars for sure. But the thing with A-pillars is that you can see around them if you use sufficient care to move your head. It is impossible to lift your head high enough to see a small child walking past a vehicle where the bonnet (hood if you prefer) is at an adult males chest height.
  - bombcar 11mo ago
    Large portions of it can be attributed to fuel economy and safety requirements (ironically the “dangerous” safety requirements are tied to people unwilling to wear seatbelts). Fuel economy tends all vehicles to the same aerodynamic shape (similar to how all big planes look quite similar), and safety is requiring airbags (which protected unbuckled passengers) in the side pillars and elsewhere, making them larger and larger.
    - VBprogrammer 11mo ago
      I not really talking about general styling, I'm talking about the specific models being available. A lot of this might better be described as the world becoming globalised rather than the US cars becoming more European. But the end result is the same, many of the best selling US cars must meet or exceed European safety standards. At a rough count a list of the best selling 25 cars in the US, 16 of them are available to buy in the UK that I know of (including cars like the Jeep Wrangler which are obviously American classics). Most of the different is Trucks and full-size SUVs. And a couple of Chevy's which gave up on the UK market a few years ago. So either pedestrian fatalities are concentrated in those areas or there are other factors at play (road design, driver training, enforcement of rules etc).
- gblargg 11mo ago
  No, you got it backwards. So I guess you need to update your idea of American sentiment, for one (since I'm American). Narrower, more winding roads, with proper highways separated, make everything safer. Safety standards bolted on to America's stroad mess can't improve it much.
beAbU 11mo ago
Many places in Europe has bad design as well. This is not a uniquely american thing.
- otikik 11mo ago
  What you are saying is true, but it isn't the whole truth. In Europe, some stroads exist. The rest are streets or roads. In the US, some streets exist. The rest are stroads or roads.
fabian2k 11mo ago
If this were comparing absolute numbers I'd agree. But this is only the relative change over a few years, the road design hasn't seriously changed in that time. So those differences should affect these numbers directly.
- gblargg 11mo ago
  My point was that the corresponding worse American performance might not be so much a difference in car safety regulations, but of basic road design. In other words, the same EU vehicle regulations could have a lesser benefit in the USA.

by gblargg 11mo ago

herbst 11mo ago

Do you actually think that is the case? Because you have big streets and cars, small cars and actual safety standards would make it less safe? That's the most American sentiment I've heard today

VBprogrammer 11mo ago
Whether they like it or not, American cars have become a lot more European over the years. I wish I had figures to back it up but from my own anecdotal experience when we traveled to the US when I was young almost every car was different and, for me at least, this made it feel strange and exciting. Taking my own kids back there this year, most of the normal cars were common, or at most variations of the ones from Europe. Even many of the vans and work vehicles are now common European shapes, occasionally with a different badge. Trucks and full size SUVs were the last hold outs of US specific models. Which makes me wonder, are the pedestrian deaths really heavily weighted towards these models? For what it's worth we hired a full sized SUV. There was one point where I was about to drive out of our Villa's driveway when my partner shouted "wait!" There was a 8ish year old kid walking down the sidewalk towards where I was about to cross it who was completely invisible from the driving position. It was actually safer to forward park that thing because the visibility in the reversing camera was much better than driving forward.
- herbst 11mo ago
  Anecdotally you got a different impression of the cars than 10 or 20 years ago.
  - VBprogrammer 11mo ago
    Yes. Congratulations, it appears you can read.
- kelnos 11mo ago
  As an American who sometimes travels to Europe and sees and rents cars there, my experience has not matched with yours.
- silon42 11mo ago
  The problem of poor visibility due to fat A-pillars is not limited to large SUVs, it's a problem on normal cars too.
  - VBprogrammer 11mo ago
    Fat A-pillars is a noticeable problem on modern cars for sure. But the thing with A-pillars is that you can see around them if you use sufficient care to move your head. It is impossible to lift your head high enough to see a small child walking past a vehicle where the bonnet (hood if you prefer) is at an adult males chest height.
- bombcar 11mo ago
  Large portions of it can be attributed to fuel economy and safety requirements (ironically the “dangerous” safety requirements are tied to people unwilling to wear seatbelts). Fuel economy tends all vehicles to the same aerodynamic shape (similar to how all big planes look quite similar), and safety is requiring airbags (which protected unbuckled passengers) in the side pillars and elsewhere, making them larger and larger.
  - VBprogrammer 11mo ago
    I not really talking about general styling, I'm talking about the specific models being available. A lot of this might better be described as the world becoming globalised rather than the US cars becoming more European. But the end result is the same, many of the best selling US cars must meet or exceed European safety standards. At a rough count a list of the best selling 25 cars in the US, 16 of them are available to buy in the UK that I know of (including cars like the Jeep Wrangler which are obviously American classics). Most of the different is Trucks and full-size SUVs. And a couple of Chevy's which gave up on the UK market a few years ago. So either pedestrian fatalities are concentrated in those areas or there are other factors at play (road design, driver training, enforcement of rules etc).
gblargg 11mo ago
No, you got it backwards. So I guess you need to update your idea of American sentiment, for one (since I'm American). Narrower, more winding roads, with proper highways separated, make everything safer. Safety standards bolted on to America's stroad mess can't improve it much.

beAbU 11mo ago

Many places in Europe has bad design as well. This is not a uniquely american thing.

otikik 11mo ago
What you are saying is true, but it isn't the whole truth. In Europe, some stroads exist. The rest are streets or roads. In the US, some streets exist. The rest are stroads or roads.

fabian2k 11mo ago

If this were comparing absolute numbers I'd agree. But this is only the relative change over a few years, the road design hasn't seriously changed in that time. So those differences should affect these numbers directly.

gblargg 11mo ago
My point was that the corresponding worse American performance might not be so much a difference in car safety regulations, but of basic road design. In other words, the same EU vehicle regulations could have a lesser benefit in the USA.