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The bigger problem with the H1B system is family reunification. 65,000 H1B visas a year is not that many. But because H1B is a path to citizenship in practice,
by rayiner 11mo ago
The bigger problem with the H1B system is family reunification. 65,000 H1B visas a year is not that many. But because H1B is a path to citizenship in practice, just one skilled worker eventually will bring in many more family members who aren’t filtered for skills.
When we came to the U.S. in 1989–on my dad’s H1 visa—there were under 10,000 Bangladeshis in the country. Today, there are 270,000. Those aren’t 270,000 highly skilled and highly motivated workers. They’re here based on chain migration from handful of original skilled workers.
- richard___ 11mo agoHow does this work, exactly? What is the law that allows relatives of H1B to become citizens?
- cft 11mo agoBasic US immigration law: once a permanent resident or a citizen, a former H1B holder can bring his relatives, like any US citizen
- fakedang 11mo agoAnd that's where the trouble is. Worked well for the postwar periods and the 60s, but not so much today when US economic output (outside tech and white collar services) has been middling at best.
- R_D_Olivaw 11mo agoIt always add astonishes me how bots live their lives. Only ever seeing things in terms of fictional economies. We needn't worry about soulless AIs, we've got heartless Humans running amock.
- throaway123213 11mo agoIt becomes a problem when the population of the developing nations outnumber the developed 100 to one. And im not talking about those inside the USA, im talking about worldwide. Id love to let them all in. Ive been to third world countries and I can't fault any individual for doing what they can to leave. But the current system can't support a borderless world.
- triceratops 11mo ago> when the population of the developing nations outnumber the developed 100 to one Well it's only 7:1 right now. It's never going to be 100:1. Don't worry about it.
- harshalizee 11mo agoSo you want talented individuals to come in to prop up the economy for decades with their output, but forbid them trying to establish a normal family life in the country?
- DrPimienta 11mo agoThere are talented individuals here that can't establish a normal family life IN THE COUNTRY THEY WERE BORN IN because the government keeps driving down wages by importing third world desperation.
- throaway123213 11mo agoYes. The 'heartless' people in this equation are the corporate ghouls, like usual!
- R_D_Olivaw 11mo agoJust see the language they use, "third world" countries. .. As if the lead pipe laden cities of USA, the Fentanyl Zombie camps, the disfunctional and predatory healthcare system, the incessant and consistent child deaths to guns in schools isn't somehow "third world".
- fakedang 11mo agoHeartless because we control immigration? Guess that makes the Japanese, the Koreans, the Chinese, the Indians, the Eastern Europeans and most of the stable Middle East heartless humans.
- throaway123213 11mo ago'Heartless" cause CNN told them it was.
- JuniperMesos 11mo agoIn the case of the H1-B visa holder's children, the Birthright Citizenship Clause of the 14th amendment.
- rayiner 11mo agoOn paper, H1B is a temporary worker program that requires non-immigrant intent. In practice, there is a legal fiction called “dual intent” that allows H1Bs to apply for a green card without violating the requirement of non-immigrant intent. Once a permanent resident, they can sponsor spouses and adult children for permanent residency. Once a citizen, they can sponsor parents and siblings. The U.S. gave my dad an H1 visa, which resulted in 8 other Bangladeshis moving to the U.S. If my mom wasn’t antisocial, she could’ve sponsored her dozen siblings, who could’ve then sponsored their children. That’s how you end up with ethnic enclaves like Little Bangladesh.
- alfonzo227 11mo agoLet's be a bit clear on the timelines though. Right now if you get an H1B to the US (good luck), it's 10+ years before you could get citizenship, and that's assuming your employer sponsors you and you get an EB- green card. You could then bring your parents within a few years, but it would be like another 15+ year wait to get your siblings in on an F-4 visa. So it's not like folks are getting an H1B and then shipping over their entire families on the next boat, it's decades depending on their relationship to you.
- goodluckchuck 11mo agoFor a family going without relatives, a couple decades may be an eternity. For a nation-state, a couple decades is the blink of an eye.
- rayiner 11mo ago10-15 years isn’t a long time on a social timescale. It’s actually very quick. That means a small number of H1B immigrants can give rise to a large immigrant community within a few decades, as has happened with Bangladeshi enclaves around the country.
- triceratops 11mo agoThe family reunification pathway is available to all US citizens and permanent residents. This isn't a "problem with the H1B system" per se.
- rayiner 11mo agoIt is a problem with H1B because it undermines the whole idea of selective immigration. H1B is pitched to the public as a way to get "the best and brightest" from foreign countries. But because of family reunification, the decision to admit one skilled worker actually means one skilled worker plus potentially dozens of other people with no qualifications whatsoever. Bangladesh gets around 50-60 skilled immigrant visas a year, but the Bangladeshi population in the U.S. has someone grown from under 10,000 in 1990 to over 270,000 today. That's the product of family reunification. Voters who supported H1B thought they were voting for a handful of Bangladeshi doctors and engineers, and instead they got Little Bangladeshes popping up all over the country.
- triceratops 11mo ago> But because of family reunification There you go. You identified the actual cause yourself. > the decision to admit one skilled worker actually means one skilled worker plus potentially dozens of other people with no qualifications whatsoever. "Potentially no qualifications" is doing a lot of work there (strangely). What are the odds that only one person in the family is well-educated? And isn't IQ supposedly heritable? I'm personally neutral on family reunification. It undermines fairness but helps family cohesion. I understand arguments in favor of and against it, and there probably isn't a single right answer. I'm not convinced family members without any qualifications or a means of supporting themselves in the US would even leave their country. What's the point? And if they're truly useless, their relative who would otherwise sponsor their immigration visa might prefer just sending them some money. It would be cheaper than financially supporting them here. > instead they got Little Bangladeshes popping up all over the country From the little research I did, Bangladeshi-Americans have higher educational attainment and household incomes than the median. America has always had ethnic neighborhoods - German/China/Korea/Japantowns, little Italys. What's the issue?
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- harshalizee 11mo agoTo be clear, ANY US Citizen or Permanant Resident can eventually bring in some families after an arduous and long process. This is a non-existent issue with H1-B. The current wait times for an H1-B from the Rest of the World(ROW) is around 10+ years to be a citizen. For India/China/Mexico, it's around 12-27 years to become a Permanent Resident if they applied for their I-140 before 2020. If they applied after 2020, it's currently estimated at 34-75 years!
- BobaFloutist 11mo agoWhy is that a problem?
- BriggyDwiggs42 11mo agoWhy wouldn’t they be skilled or motivated? They’re just not tech workers. Even if they were all lazy or whatever, what about their kids?
- maxerickson 11mo agoIt's great that all those people without special skills can access rewarding jobs in the powerhouse US economy. It's demented to think that they are undermining wages when unemployment was basically 0 when Trump and his moronic goons took power. This idea that we should use borders to keep other people poor is just insane.