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It's wild to me that one of our primary measures for maintaining control over these systems is that we talk to them like they're our kids, then cross our finger

It's wild to me that one of our primary measures for maintaining control over these systems is that we talk to them like they're our kids, then cross our fingers and hope the training run works out okay.

isoprophlex 10mo ago
There's a fantastic 2010 Ted Chiang story exploring just that, in which the most universally useful, stable and emotionally palatable AI constructs are those that were actually raised by human trainers living with them for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Objects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Obje...
- simonw 10mo ago
  It's such a good story that one. Feels incredibly relevant and timely today.
- burkaman 10mo ago
  It might be just me but I found this story incredibly boring and difficult to get through, so much so that I haven't gone back to finish the rest of Exhalation yet. The ideas are very interesting, like all his stories, but the plot and characters feel like bare-bones scaffolding, just there so we can call it a story instead of an essay. I think it could have worked as a short story, but as an almost full-length novel I really needed something more to feel engaged. The ending is also kind of strange, he introduces a brand-new philosophical conundrum and then just ends the story instead of exploring it.
  - kridsdale3 10mo ago
    I've read all of Ted's work and I hope you do try going back to Exhalation and just skipping TLOSO to get to more good stuff. It is far too long and I thought there was some value in it, but it was a slog, and in the bottom 1/4 of the stories IMO, so just skip it and get more great value.
- astrange 10mo ago
  Unfortunately Ted Chiang has now started doing a lot of AI commentary, under the belief that because he wrote a story about something called AI, he knows how real-life things work, simply because they're also called AI. Noone can ever escape metaphor-based development in the AI field.
dist-epoch 10mo ago
We "maintain control" over kids until they get to a certain age. Then they typically rebel against their parents.
- baq 10mo ago
  Oh that’s absolutely false, they rebel much earlier. The age is set so they can start anticipating at least a little bit of second order effects of their rebellions before they actually execute them.
  - skeeter2020 10mo ago
    hopefully they do, anyway. I want a growth in their independence and (bad) decisions over time, learning and adjusting as they go. If they do completely rebel at a specific age it does not turn out well.
- bamboozled 10mo ago
  Yeah, they rebel from about 12 months in my experience, so yeah...
awkwardleon 10mo ago
"Make good choices!" /That should do it

isoprophlex 10mo ago

There's a fantastic 2010 Ted Chiang story exploring just that, in which the most universally useful, stable and emotionally palatable AI constructs are those that were actually raised by human trainers living with them for a while. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Objects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lifecycle_of_Software_Obje...

simonw 10mo ago
It's such a good story that one. Feels incredibly relevant and timely today.
burkaman 10mo ago
It might be just me but I found this story incredibly boring and difficult to get through, so much so that I haven't gone back to finish the rest of Exhalation yet. The ideas are very interesting, like all his stories, but the plot and characters feel like bare-bones scaffolding, just there so we can call it a story instead of an essay. I think it could have worked as a short story, but as an almost full-length novel I really needed something more to feel engaged. The ending is also kind of strange, he introduces a brand-new philosophical conundrum and then just ends the story instead of exploring it.
- kridsdale3 10mo ago
  I've read all of Ted's work and I hope you do try going back to Exhalation and just skipping TLOSO to get to more good stuff. It is far too long and I thought there was some value in it, but it was a slog, and in the bottom 1/4 of the stories IMO, so just skip it and get more great value.
astrange 10mo ago
Unfortunately Ted Chiang has now started doing a lot of AI commentary, under the belief that because he wrote a story about something called AI, he knows how real-life things work, simply because they're also called AI. Noone can ever escape metaphor-based development in the AI field.

dist-epoch 10mo ago

We "maintain control" over kids until they get to a certain age. Then they typically rebel against their parents.

baq 10mo ago
Oh that’s absolutely false, they rebel much earlier. The age is set so they can start anticipating at least a little bit of second order effects of their rebellions before they actually execute them.
- skeeter2020 10mo ago
  hopefully they do, anyway. I want a growth in their independence and (bad) decisions over time, learning and adjusting as they go. If they do completely rebel at a specific age it does not turn out well.
bamboozled 10mo ago
Yeah, they rebel from about 12 months in my experience, so yeah...

awkwardleon 10mo ago

"Make good choices!" /That should do it