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Point taken. But does it really matter that the students are not "American-born"? How many expat students really return to their native countries? I think th

by ak39 14y ago

Point taken. But does it really matter that the students are not "American-born"? How many expat students really return to their native countries? I think the investments in education ultimately stays closer to the institutions.

eli_gottlieb 14y ago
But does it really matter that the students are not "American-born"? If you're trying to talk about the impact of American universities on America's innovative capacity and America's economy, then yes, it matters how many students and graduates are American-born -- because only an extreme few of those immigrant students are getting Green Cards. It also matters to consider American-born students rather than all citizens and prospective citizens because we're trying to get an indication of what people think about the American labor market. The best way to measure that is to look at people who are confined to the American labor market. If we had a "points-based" immigration system like Canada, say, I would be asking how many graduates are American citizens. But we don't. Most international students I met were planning on either going "back home" or rising through further academic degrees (ie: grad-school) in order to continue their visas long enough to at least try for a Green Card and/or American citizenship. The economic impact of the latter is limited to academia.... which gets us back to the very problem I've been trying to articulate: that academia (in the sense of teaching and research, not just university incomes or spending) has been killed off as a major economic engine in America. http://infoproc.blogspot.co.il/2008/05/dont-become-scientist-philip-greenspun.html http://infoproc.blogspot.co.il/2008/05/dont-become-scientist... -- here is our problem, described twice. American STEM innovation/research is a bad career path. That's the core problem, but people keep trying to fix it by... futzing around with the immigration laws so that America can exploit foreign labor and foreign investments in education and research training rather than having to pay for the innovators it supposedly wants.

by ak39 14y ago

eli_gottlieb 14y ago

But does it really matter that the students are not "American-born"? If you're trying to talk about the impact of American universities on America's innovative capacity and America's economy, then yes, it matters how many students and graduates are American-born -- because only an extreme few of those immigrant students are getting Green Cards. It also matters to consider American-born students rather than all citizens and prospective citizens because we're trying to get an indication of what people think about the American labor market. The best way to measure that is to look at people who are confined to the American labor market. If we had a "points-based" immigration system like Canada, say, I would be asking how many graduates are American citizens. But we don't. Most international students I met were planning on either going "back home" or rising through further academic degrees (ie: grad-school) in order to continue their visas long enough to at least try for a Green Card and/or American citizenship. The economic impact of the latter is limited to academia.... which gets us back to the very problem I've been trying to articulate: that academia (in the sense of teaching and research, not just university incomes or spending) has been killed off as a major economic engine in America. http://infoproc.blogspot.co.il/2008/05/dont-become-scientist-philip-greenspun.html http://infoproc.blogspot.co.il/2008/05/dont-become-scientist... -- here is our problem, described twice. American STEM innovation/research is a bad career path. That's the core problem, but people keep trying to fix it by... futzing around with the immigration laws so that America can exploit foreign labor and foreign investments in education and research training rather than having to pay for the innovators it supposedly wants.