5 ms·

If the Chinese model becomes better than competitors, these worries will suddenly disappear. Also, there are plenty startups and enterprises that are running fi

If the Chinese model becomes better than competitors, these worries will suddenly disappear. Also, there are plenty startups and enterprises that are running fine-tuned versions of different OS models.

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
Yeah that’s not how Big Enterprise works… And most startups are just doing prompt engineering that will never go anywhere. The big companies will just throw a couple of developers at the feature and add it to their existing business.
- tokioyoyo 11mo ago
  Big enterprise with mostly private companies as their clients? Lol, yeah, that’s how they work from my personal experience. The reality is, if it’s not a tech-first enterprise and already outsource part of tech to a shop outside of NA (which is almost majority at this point), they will do absolutely everything to cut the costs.
  - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
    I spent three years working in consulting mostly in public sector and education and the last two working with startups to mid size commercial interest and a couple of financial institutions. Before that I spent 6 years working between 3 companies in health care in a tech lead role. I’m 100% sure that any of those companies would I have immediately questioned my judgment for suggesting DeepSeek if had been a thing. Absolutely none of them would ever have touched DeepSeek.
    - ipaddr 11mo ago
      Why would you be presenting what AI tech you are using? You would tell them AI will come from Amazon using a variety of models.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        You still choose your model. I’m no more going to say “I’m using Bedrock” without being more specific than I would say “I’m using RDS” without specifying the database.
      - chaboud 11mo ago
        In various sectors, you need to be able to explain why you/your-system did what it did. Exchange Act Rule 15c3-5 is probably the most relevant in financial circles: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-240/subpart-A/subject-group-ECFR541343e5c1fa459/section-240.15c3-5 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-240/su... Note: I am neither a lawyer nor in financial circles, but I do have an interest in the effects of market design and regulation as we get into a more deeply automated space.
        raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        To add on, while it doesn’t work with GenAI models as far as I know. AWS has a service around explainability around ML decisions https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/clarify-model-explainability.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/clarify-mode...
    - tokioyoyo 11mo ago
      I've worked with financial services, and insurance providers that would have done the opposite for cost saving measures. So, I'm not sure what to say here.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        Regulators would have the head of any financial institution that used a Chinese model.
      - corimaith 11mo ago
        Financial Services are far more risk averse first than they are cost cutting, they literally have risk departments. If you'd spent anytime working at one for swe you won't have access to popular open source frameworks, let alone Chinese LLMs. The LLM development is mostly occurring through collaborations with the regional LLM businesses or internal labs.
subroutine 11mo ago
As a government contractor, using a Chinese model is a non-starter.
- jazzyjackson 11mo ago
  I don't know that it's actually prohibited. There is no Chinese telecommunications equipment allowed, no Huawei or Bytedance, but nothing prohibiting software merely being developed in China, not yet at least. Although I did just check what regions AWS bedrock support Deepseek and their govcloud regions do not, so that's a good reason not to use it. Still, on prem on a segmented network, following CMMC, probably permissable
  - apercu 11mo ago
    There’s nuance and debate about the 110 level 2 controls without bringing Chinese tech in to the picture. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting lol.
  - re-thc 11mo ago
    > I don't know that it's actually prohibited. Chinese models generally aren't but DeepSeek specifically is at this point.
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
hhh 11mo ago
No… Nobody I work for will touch these models. The fear is real that they have been poisoned or have some underlying bomb. Plus y’know, they’re produced by China, so they would never make it past a review board in most mega enterprises IME.
- tokioyoyo 11mo ago
  People say that, but everyone, including enterprises, are constantly buying Chinese tech one way or another because of cost/quality ratio. There’s a tipping point in any excel file where risks don’t make sense, if the cost is 20x for the same quality. Of course you’ll always have exceptions (government, military and etc.), but for private, winner will take it all.
  - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
    What Chinese built infrastructure tech where information can be exfiltrated or cause any real damage are American companies buying? Chinese communication tech is for the most part not allowed in any American technology.
    - oceanplexian 11mo ago
      80% of the parts in iPhones are manufactured in China, and they have completely and utterly dominated in Enterprise (Ever heard of someone using a Blackberry in 2025? Me neither.) so there’s one example.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        The software is made by Apple. Hardware can’t magically intercept communications and the manufacturing is done mostly in Taiwan. If Apple doesn’t have a process to protect its operating system from supply chain attacks, it would be derelict
        necovek 11mo ago

raw_anon_1111 11mo ago

Yeah that’s not how Big Enterprise works… And most startups are just doing prompt engineering that will never go anywhere. The big companies will just throw a couple of developers at the feature and add it to their existing business.

tokioyoyo 11mo ago
Big enterprise with mostly private companies as their clients? Lol, yeah, that’s how they work from my personal experience. The reality is, if it’s not a tech-first enterprise and already outsource part of tech to a shop outside of NA (which is almost majority at this point), they will do absolutely everything to cut the costs.
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  I spent three years working in consulting mostly in public sector and education and the last two working with startups to mid size commercial interest and a couple of financial institutions. Before that I spent 6 years working between 3 companies in health care in a tech lead role. I’m 100% sure that any of those companies would I have immediately questioned my judgment for suggesting DeepSeek if had been a thing. Absolutely none of them would ever have touched DeepSeek.
  - ipaddr 11mo ago
    Why would you be presenting what AI tech you are using? You would tell them AI will come from Amazon using a variety of models.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      You still choose your model. I’m no more going to say “I’m using Bedrock” without being more specific than I would say “I’m using RDS” without specifying the database.
    - chaboud 11mo ago
      In various sectors, you need to be able to explain why you/your-system did what it did. Exchange Act Rule 15c3-5 is probably the most relevant in financial circles: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-240/subpart-A/subject-group-ECFR541343e5c1fa459/section-240.15c3-5 https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-240/su... Note: I am neither a lawyer nor in financial circles, but I do have an interest in the effects of market design and regulation as we get into a more deeply automated space.
      - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
        To add on, while it doesn’t work with GenAI models as far as I know. AWS has a service around explainability around ML decisions https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/clarify-model-explainability.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/sagemaker/latest/dg/clarify-mode...
  - tokioyoyo 11mo ago
    I've worked with financial services, and insurance providers that would have done the opposite for cost saving measures. So, I'm not sure what to say here.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      Regulators would have the head of any financial institution that used a Chinese model.
    - corimaith 11mo ago
      Financial Services are far more risk averse first than they are cost cutting, they literally have risk departments. If you'd spent anytime working at one for swe you won't have access to popular open source frameworks, let alone Chinese LLMs. The LLM development is mostly occurring through collaborations with the regional LLM businesses or internal labs.

subroutine 11mo ago

As a government contractor, using a Chinese model is a non-starter.

jazzyjackson 11mo ago
I don't know that it's actually prohibited. There is no Chinese telecommunications equipment allowed, no Huawei or Bytedance, but nothing prohibiting software merely being developed in China, not yet at least. Although I did just check what regions AWS bedrock support Deepseek and their govcloud regions do not, so that's a good reason not to use it. Still, on prem on a segmented network, following CMMC, probably permissable
- apercu 11mo ago
  There’s nuance and debate about the 110 level 2 controls without bringing Chinese tech in to the picture. I’d love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting lol.
- re-thc 11mo ago
  > I don't know that it's actually prohibited. Chinese models generally aren't but DeepSeek specifically is at this point.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]

hhh 11mo ago

No… Nobody I work for will touch these models. The fear is real that they have been poisoned or have some underlying bomb. Plus y’know, they’re produced by China, so they would never make it past a review board in most mega enterprises IME.

tokioyoyo 11mo ago
People say that, but everyone, including enterprises, are constantly buying Chinese tech one way or another because of cost/quality ratio. There’s a tipping point in any excel file where risks don’t make sense, if the cost is 20x for the same quality. Of course you’ll always have exceptions (government, military and etc.), but for private, winner will take it all.
- raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
  What Chinese built infrastructure tech where information can be exfiltrated or cause any real damage are American companies buying? Chinese communication tech is for the most part not allowed in any American technology.
  - oceanplexian 11mo ago
    80% of the parts in iPhones are manufactured in China, and they have completely and utterly dominated in Enterprise (Ever heard of someone using a Blackberry in 2025? Me neither.) so there’s one example.
    - raw_anon_1111 11mo ago
      The software is made by Apple. Hardware can’t magically intercept communications and the manufacturing is done mostly in Taiwan. If Apple doesn’t have a process to protect its operating system from supply chain attacks, it would be derelict
      - necovek 11mo ago