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As much I agree with your sentiment, but I doubt the intention is singular.
by srameshc 10mo ago
As much I agree with your sentiment, but I doubt the intention is singular.
- echelon 10mo agoI don't care if this kills Google and OpenAI. I hope it does, though I'm doubtful because distribution is important. You can't beat "ChatGPT" as a brand in laypeople's minds (unless perhaps you give them a massive "Temu: Shop Like A Billionaire" commercial campaign). Closed source AI is almost by design morphing into an industrial, infrastructure-heavy rocket science that commoners can't keep up with. The companies pushing it are building an industry we can't participate or share in. They're cordoning off areas of tech and staking ground for themselves. It's placing a steep fence around tech. I hope every such closed source AI effort is met with equivalent open source and that the investments made into closed AI go to zero. The most likely outcome is that Google, OpenAI, and Anthropic win and every other "lab"-shaped company dies an expensive death. RunwayML spent hundreds of millions and they're barely noticeable now. These open source models hasten the deaths of the second tier also-ran companies. As much as I hope for dents in the big three, I'm doubtful.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoI can’t think of a single company I’ve worked with as a consultant that I could convince to use DeepSeek because of its ties with China even if I explained that it was hosted on AWS and none of the information would go to China. Even when the technical people understood that, it would be too much of a political quagmire within their company when it became known to the higher ups. It just isn’t worth the political capital. They would feel the same way about using xAI or maybe even Facebook models.
- siliconc0w 10mo ago[flagged]
- nagaiaida 10mo agoon what hypothetical grounds would you be more meaningfully able to sue the american maker of a self-hosted statistical language model that you select your own runtime sampling parameters for after random subtle security vulnerabilities came out the other side when you asked it for very secure code? put another way, how do you propose to tell this subtle nefarious chinese sabotage you baselessly imply to be commonplace from the very real limitations of this technology in the first place?
- fragmede 10mo agoThis paper may be of interest to you: https://arxiv.org/html/2504.15867v1 https://arxiv.org/html/2504.15867v1
- nagaiaida 10mo agothe mechanism of action for that attack appears to be reading from poisoned snippets on stackoverflow or a similar site, which to my mind is an excellent example of why it seems like it would be difficult to retroactively pin "insecure code came out of my model" on the evil communist base weights of the model in question
- kriops 10mo ago[flagged]
- StealthyStart 10mo agoThis is the real cause. At the enterprise level, trust outweighs cost. My company hires agencies and consultants who provide the same advice as our internal team; this is not to imply that our internal team is incorrect; rather, there is credibility that if something goes wrong, the decision consequences can be shifted, and there is a reason why companies continue to hire the same four consulting firms. It's trust, whether it's real or perceived.
- 0xWTF 10mo agoChildren do the same thing intuitively: parents continually complain that their children don't listen to them. But as soon as someone else tells them to "cover their nose", "chew with their mouth closed", "don't run with scissors", whatever, they listen and integrate that guidance into their behavior. What's harder to observe is all the external guidance they get that they don't integrate until their parents tell them. It's internal vs external validation.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoOr in many cases they go over to their grandparents house and they let them run wild and all of the sudden your parents have “McDonald’s money” for their grandkids when they never had it for you.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoI have seen it much more nuanced than that. 2020 - I was a mid level (L5) cloud consultant at AWS with only two years of total AWS experience and that was only at a small startup before then. Yet every customer took my (what in hindsight might not have been the best) advice all of the time without questioning it as long as it met their business goals. Just because I had @amazon.com as my email address. Late 2023 - I was the subject matter expert in a niche of a niche in AWS that the customer focused on and it was still almost impossible to get someone to listen to a consultant from a shitty third rate consulting company. 2025 - I left the shitty consulting company last year after only a year and now work for one with a much better reputation and I have a better title “staff consultant”. I also play the game and be sure to mention that I’m former “AWS ProServe” when I’m doing introductions. Now people listen to me again.
- tokioyoyo 10mo agoIf the Chinese model becomes better than competitors, these worries will suddenly disappear. Also, there are plenty startups and enterprises that are running fine-tuned versions of different OS models.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoYeah that’s not how Big Enterprise works… And most startups are just doing prompt engineering that will never go anywhere. The big companies will just throw a couple of developers at the feature and add it to their existing business.
- tokioyoyo 10mo agoBig enterprise with mostly private companies as their clients? Lol, yeah, that’s how they work from my personal experience. The reality is, if it’s not a tech-first enterprise and already outsource part of tech to a shop outside of NA (which is almost majority at this point), they will do absolutely everything to cut the costs.
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoI spent three years working in consulting mostly in public sector and education and the last two working with startups to mid size commercial interest and a couple of financial institutions. Before that I spent 6 years working between 3 companies in health care in a tech lead role. I’m 100% sure that any of those companies would I have immediately questioned my judgment for suggesting DeepSeek if had been a thing. Absolutely none of them would ever have touched DeepSeek.
- ipaddr 10mo agoWhy would you be presenting what AI tech you are using? You would tell them AI will come from Amazon using a variety of models.
- 10mo ago
- kriops 10mo ago[flagged]
- JSR_FDED 10mo agoAirBnB is all in on DeepSeek and Qwen. https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/airbnb-picks-alibabas-qwen-over-093000045.html https://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/airbnb-picks-alibabas-qwen...
- raw_anon_1111 10mo agoTIL: That Chinese models are considered better at multiple languages than non Chinese models.
- tayo42 10mo agoIt's a customer service bot? And Airbnb is a vacation home booking site. It's pretty inconsequential
- antonvs 10mo agoAirbnb has ~$12 bn annual revenue, and is a counterexample to the idea that no companies can be "convinced to use DeepSeek". The fact that it's customer service means it's dealing with text entered by customers, which has privacy and other consequences. So no, it's not "pretty inconsequential". Many more companies fit a profile like that than whatever arbitrary criteria you might have in mind for "consequential".
- tehjoker 10mo agoreally a testament to how easily the us govt has spun a china bad narrative even though it is mostly fiction and american exceptionalism
- beowulf0x0 10mo ago[flagged]
- tehjoker 10mo agoThis is how crazy and nationalistic people are getting. I'm an American citizen, though I am critical of the US government, and have no allegiances to China. What do you think America is doing to every country, even allies (which has been highly publicized)? Why would a country being constantly attacked by American intelligence and propaganda not want to counter that? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie... American intelligence has penetrated most information systems and at least as of 10 years ago, was leading all other nations in the level of sophistication and capability. Read Edward Snowden.
- ClearZ 10mo ago[dead]
- corimaith 10mo agoMoralizing through whataboutism does not logically follow in disproving the China threat narrative, it is axiomatic that what matters is what they are doing to us, not what we are doing to them from that vantage. Rather, I'd say it speaks more about how deranged the post-snowden/anti-neocon figures have become, from critiquing creeping authoritarianism to functionality acting at the behest of an even more authoritarian regime. The funny thing is that behavior of deflection, moralizing and whataboutism is exactly the kind of behavior nationalists employ, not addressing arguments head on like the so-called "American nationalists".
- 10mo ago
- littlestymaar 10mo ago> I can’t think of a single company I’ve worked with as a consultant that I could convince to use DeepSeek because of its ties with China even if I explained that it was hosted on AWS and none of the information would go to China. Well for non-American companies, you have the choice between Chinese models that don't send data home, and American ones that do, with both countries being more or less equally threatening. I think if Mistral can just stay close enough to the race it will win many customers by not doing anything.
- register 10mo agoThat might be the perspective of a US based company. But there is also Europe and basically it's a choice between Trump and China.
- Muromec 10mo agoEurope has Mistral. It feels that governments that can do things without fax take this as a sovereignity thing and roll their own or have their provider in their jurisdiction.
- deaux 10mo ago> Even when the technical people understood that I'm not sure if technical people who don't understand this deserve the moniker technical in this context.
- nylonstrung 10mo agoThe average person has been programmed to be distrustful of open source in general, thinking it is inferior quality or in service of some ulterior motive
- giancarlostoro 10mo agoChatGPT is like "Photoshop" people will call any AI chatgpt.
- banq 10mo ago[dead]
- twelvechairs 10mo agoThe bar is incredibly low considering what OpenAI has done as a "not for profit"
- energy123 10mo agoIt's like AMD open-sourcing FSR or Meta open-sourcing Llama. It's good for us, but it's nothing more than a situational and temporary alignment of self-interest with the public good. When the tables turn (they become the best instead of 4th best, or AMD develops the best upscaler, etc), the decision that aligns with self-interest will change, and people will start complaining that they've lost their moral compass.
- re-thc 10mo agoIt's not. This isn't about competition in a company sense but sanctions and wider macro issues.
- energy123 10mo agoIt's like it in the sense that it's done because it aligns with self-interest. Even if the nature of that self-interest differs.
- orbital-decay 10mo ago>situational and temporary alignment of self-interest with the public good That's how it supposed to work.