4 ms·

If 8 bit: 6809. If 32 bit: 68K. Those are miles ahead of the 6502. Otoh if you want to see a fun quirky chip the 6502 is definitely great, and I'd recommend you

If 8 bit: 6809. If 32 bit: 68K. Those are miles ahead of the 6502. Otoh if you want to see a fun quirky chip the 6502 is definitely great, and I'd recommend you use a (virtual) BBC Micro to start you off with.

bsder 1y ago
Yeah, the 6809 is just ridiculously good to learn assembly language on. Motorola cleaned up all the idiocies from the 6800 on the 6809. The attention the 6502 get is just because of history. The advantage the 6502 had was that it was cheap--on every other axis the 6502 sucked.
- jacquesm 1y ago
  Imagine a world where the Apple II had a 6800 later upgraded to 6809...
  - hashmash 1y ago
    It wouldn't have happened because the 6809 wasn't binary compatible with the 6800.
    - jacquesm 1y ago
      So?
      - hashmash 1y ago
        Because none of the existing software would work. The idea of running a Rosetta-like feature on an 8-bit CPU isn't feasible. The Apple II eventually received an upgraded processor, the 65816, which was compatible with the 6502.
        jacquesm 1y ago
        In those days nobody cared about binary compatibility. If you had an assembler and the source code you were all set.
        jecel 1y ago
        Though a problem, as you point out, it still happened. The 6800 based SWTPC was followed by 6809 machines what need to have all their software reassembled. On the other side of the cpu wars, all those 8080 machines moving on the Z80s got to keep all their binary software, which happened again for IBM PCs and clones as those evolved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWTPC_6800 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWTPC_6800
    - djmips 1y ago
      The 6809 was SOURCE compatible with the 6800 - you can assemble 6800 code on a 6809 assembler and it will run with perhaps very minor tweaks.
  - bsder 1y ago
    Then the Apple II would never have sold. The 6800 was expensive versus the 6502--almost 10x (6502 was $25 when the 6800 was $175 which was already reduced from $360)!
    - jacquesm 1y ago
      Yes, I was thinking more from a tech perspective, not from a price perspective.
    - djmips 1y ago
      And yeah, there was a 6502 Apple I too!
- classichasclass 1y ago
  Sucked, compared to? If the 6502 sucked on every other metric but cost, while it would have gotten some use I don't think it would have been as heavily used as it was.
  - Someone 1y ago
    The 6502 is from 1975, the 6809 from 1978. The 6800 (from 1974) could have been competitive with the 6502, but (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809#6800_and_6502 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809#6800_and_6502): “The 6800 was initially sold at $360 in single-unit quantities, but had been lowered to $295. The 6502 was introduced at $25, and Motorola immediately reduced the 6800 to $125. It remained uncompetitive and sales prospects dimmed. The introduction of the Micralign to Motorola's lines allowed further reductions and by 1981 the price of the then-current 6800P was slightly less than the equivalent 6502, at least in single-unit quantities. By that point, however, the 6502 had sold tens of millions of units and the 6800 had been largely forgotten.”

bsder 1y ago

Yeah, the 6809 is just ridiculously good to learn assembly language on. Motorola cleaned up all the idiocies from the 6800 on the 6809. The attention the 6502 get is just because of history. The advantage the 6502 had was that it was cheap--on every other axis the 6502 sucked.

jacquesm 1y ago
Imagine a world where the Apple II had a 6800 later upgraded to 6809...
- hashmash 1y ago
  It wouldn't have happened because the 6809 wasn't binary compatible with the 6800.
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    So?
    - hashmash 1y ago
      Because none of the existing software would work. The idea of running a Rosetta-like feature on an 8-bit CPU isn't feasible. The Apple II eventually received an upgraded processor, the 65816, which was compatible with the 6502.
      - jacquesm 1y ago
        In those days nobody cared about binary compatibility. If you had an assembler and the source code you were all set.
      - jecel 1y ago
        Though a problem, as you point out, it still happened. The 6800 based SWTPC was followed by 6809 machines what need to have all their software reassembled. On the other side of the cpu wars, all those 8080 machines moving on the Z80s got to keep all their binary software, which happened again for IBM PCs and clones as those evolved. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWTPC_6800 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWTPC_6800
  - djmips 1y ago
    The 6809 was SOURCE compatible with the 6800 - you can assemble 6800 code on a 6809 assembler and it will run with perhaps very minor tweaks.
- bsder 1y ago
  Then the Apple II would never have sold. The 6800 was expensive versus the 6502--almost 10x (6502 was $25 when the 6800 was $175 which was already reduced from $360)!
  - jacquesm 1y ago
    Yes, I was thinking more from a tech perspective, not from a price perspective.
  - djmips 1y ago
    And yeah, there was a 6502 Apple I too!
classichasclass 1y ago
Sucked, compared to? If the 6502 sucked on every other metric but cost, while it would have gotten some use I don't think it would have been as heavily used as it was.
- Someone 1y ago
  The 6502 is from 1975, the 6809 from 1978. The 6800 (from 1974) could have been competitive with the 6502, but (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809#6800_and_6502 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809#6800_and_6502): “The 6800 was initially sold at $360 in single-unit quantities, but had been lowered to $295. The 6502 was introduced at $25, and Motorola immediately reduced the 6800 to $125. It remained uncompetitive and sales prospects dimmed. The introduction of the Micralign to Motorola's lines allowed further reductions and by 1981 the price of the then-current 6800P was slightly less than the equivalent 6502, at least in single-unit quantities. By that point, however, the 6502 had sold tens of millions of units and the 6800 had been largely forgotten.”