5 ms·

During CachyOS installation, select "i3" as desktop environment and look how many of the accessory programs die from linking errors. That should not happen with

by blueflow 10mo ago

During CachyOS installation, select "i3" as desktop environment and look how many of the accessory programs die from linking errors. That should not happen with a package manager with dependency management.

LargoLasskhyfv 10mo ago
Yah well? Why would I when there is Plasma/KDE which never did that to me? :-)
- lionkor 10mo ago
  User choice
  - s20n 10mo ago
    I used i3 for the longest time and I'd say a wayland based alternative like sway or miracle is a better choice nowadays. Even KDE Plasma recently dropped x11 support [1] so going forward, most apps will target wayland first. Migrating my i3 config to sway hardly took any effort. I was also able to get rid of a lot of xorg specific configurations from various x11 dotfiles and put them directly in the sway config (Such as Natural Scrolling) [1]: https://itsfoss.com/news/kde-plasma-to-drop-x11-support/ https://itsfoss.com/news/kde-plasma-to-drop-x11-support/.
ahoka 10mo ago
With all the unofficial patches and experimental compilers they use it must be full of subtle bugs.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
Hydraulix989 10mo ago
What are examples of packages that fail with linking errors? What are the errors?
- blueflow 10mo ago
  xob, whose binaries are taken from the AUR which hasn't been re-built since 2018.
  - whatevaa 10mo ago
    Yeah, well, that is AUR for you.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
  - Hydraulix989 10mo ago
    Vanilla Arch would fail in the same way with this package. Not sure I follow.
    - blueflow 10mo ago
      CachyOS installs it when you pick the "i3" flavour at install. Arch doesn't.
FlyingSnake 10mo ago
I use CachyOS as my daily driver and I gave up on i3 after few tries. It just doesn’t work. I’m happy with XFCE now and it is very performant.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- rainmaking 10mo ago
  No issues with sway here.
serf 10mo ago
almost every distro that offers an i3/sway/awesome install option seems to do a really poor job of it. I don't know why. Last time I started an endeavoros install with a default i3 it borked the login manager and set no system handlers of any kind. When I went to fix the handlers the entire package that set them was gone. When I went to install that (on the advice of the accompanying forum) I had to install most of GNOME. If you're using something that isn't KDE or GNOME you're probably going to hit rough edges.
- PrayagS 10mo ago
  That used to be the case a few years ago as well, when Wayland/sway was still considered experimental. I had tried Manjaro i3, and XFCE’s i3 variant but at the end it was actually more convenient to install the KDE version and then install i3 on top.
- dabockster 10mo ago
  > If you're using something that isn't KDE or GNOME you're probably going to hit rough edges. Anymore it's literally anything that isn't GNOME. Red Hat is basically keeping that project going.
WD-42 10mo ago
This isn't surprising. All of the X11 based WMs are slowly bit-rotting. Unless the people that care about them step up and start maintaining the stack instead of just endlessly complaining about Wayland it'll only get worse.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > start maintaining the stack instead of just endlessly complaining about Wayland it'll only get worse. This is actually what forced me to migrate to Wayland, seeing lots of people complaining about Wayland but not seeing people stepping up to maintain X11. And those who used to maintain X11, built Wayland instead. Yes, Wayland isn't perfect, but for professionals who just want shit to continue working, you kind of have to move to the software that is being maintained, for better or worse.
  - sprash 10mo ago
    Always the same lies. People "stepped up" in the and as a result were outright banned from the gitlab (instead of e.g. just rejecting pull requests). Current maintainers refuse to do any release management and instead treat every merge into master as a new release. This kind of sabotage makes development or contributing very difficult. Also the people that used to maintain X11 (e.g. Keith Packard) had nothing to do with building Wayland. Wayland on the other is just a insanely stupid API. Everybody advocating for Wayland should be forced to write a simple client at least once without relying on behemoths like GTK or Qt.
    - bitwize 10mo ago
      > People "stepped up" If by "people" you mean a fascist who doesn't know how to program, then sure. But the sensible people who don't present a security threat with their politics or with shitty code are 100% in the Wayland camp. > Also the people that used to maintain X11 (e.g. Keith Packard) had nothing to do with building Wayland. Those people aren't maintaining X11 today, are they? The people who are maintaining X11 today have put it in bugfix-only mode and have told you, many times, that the future is Wayland. End of discussion. Look, you want to run a retro 90s desktop for shits and giggles, that's great. There's even an officially supported path for this use case: Ariadne Conill's Wayback. But the DEs and the toolkits are all removing X11 support within the next year or two. There is no future there. You want to keep running modern software, you will have to switch to Wayland eventually—and soon. > Wayland on the other is just a insanely stupid API. Everybody advocating for Wayland should be forced to write a simple client at least once without relying on behemoths like GTK or Qt. Nobody actually develops applications that way. They all use a toolkit, and the behemoths cover pretty much 90% of actual application development (modulo things like Electron). Both of those, by the way, are deprecating X11 support.
gdevenyi 10mo ago
Did you report this as a bug?
- blueflow 10mo ago
  No, i attempted to use CachyOS as ready-to-go distro to stop contributing. Instead of starting to contribute to CachyOS, i went back to my previous distro where i already do contribute.
  - gosub100 10mo ago
    I had a similar beef with FreeBSD ports. And to be fair, they specifically disclaim "liability" to what the package maintainers do because they are separate groups. But the one time I tried going off the beaten path from pkg (which installs binaries) and went to /usr/local/ports and actually tried to build something from scratch, it just choked on dependencies and quit. IIRC, I tried to build vim from scratch, but during the menuconfig, selected different "cflags" (or whatever they call them) to add additional features. When you do this, it pulls in more packages, and eventually something failed to compile the way I had configured it. I realize there's probably N! different combinations of packages / dependencies. But still it left me thinking "why bother releasing this crap/give me the option to customize at all if you don't even do basic tests on it?".
- dabockster 10mo ago
  This kind of bug shouldn't happen in the first place. Totally unacceptable move by the CachyOS team.

LargoLasskhyfv 10mo ago

Yah well? Why would I when there is Plasma/KDE which never did that to me? :-)

lionkor 10mo ago
User choice
- s20n 10mo ago
  I used i3 for the longest time and I'd say a wayland based alternative like sway or miracle is a better choice nowadays. Even KDE Plasma recently dropped x11 support [1] so going forward, most apps will target wayland first. Migrating my i3 config to sway hardly took any effort. I was also able to get rid of a lot of xorg specific configurations from various x11 dotfiles and put them directly in the sway config (Such as Natural Scrolling) [1]: https://itsfoss.com/news/kde-plasma-to-drop-x11-support/ https://itsfoss.com/news/kde-plasma-to-drop-x11-support/.

ahoka 10mo ago

With all the unofficial patches and experimental compilers they use it must be full of subtle bugs.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]

Hydraulix989 10mo ago

What are examples of packages that fail with linking errors? What are the errors?

blueflow 10mo ago
xob, whose binaries are taken from the AUR which hasn't been re-built since 2018.
- whatevaa 10mo ago
  Yeah, well, that is AUR for you.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- Hydraulix989 10mo ago
  Vanilla Arch would fail in the same way with this package. Not sure I follow.
  - blueflow 10mo ago
    CachyOS installs it when you pick the "i3" flavour at install. Arch doesn't.

FlyingSnake 10mo ago

I use CachyOS as my daily driver and I gave up on i3 after few tries. It just doesn’t work. I’m happy with XFCE now and it is very performant.

deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
rainmaking 10mo ago
No issues with sway here.

serf 10mo ago

almost every distro that offers an i3/sway/awesome install option seems to do a really poor job of it. I don't know why. Last time I started an endeavoros install with a default i3 it borked the login manager and set no system handlers of any kind. When I went to fix the handlers the entire package that set them was gone. When I went to install that (on the advice of the accompanying forum) I had to install most of GNOME. If you're using something that isn't KDE or GNOME you're probably going to hit rough edges.

PrayagS 10mo ago
That used to be the case a few years ago as well, when Wayland/sway was still considered experimental. I had tried Manjaro i3, and XFCE’s i3 variant but at the end it was actually more convenient to install the KDE version and then install i3 on top.
dabockster 10mo ago
> If you're using something that isn't KDE or GNOME you're probably going to hit rough edges. Anymore it's literally anything that isn't GNOME. Red Hat is basically keeping that project going.

WD-42 10mo ago

This isn't surprising. All of the X11 based WMs are slowly bit-rotting. Unless the people that care about them step up and start maintaining the stack instead of just endlessly complaining about Wayland it'll only get worse.

embedding-shape 10mo ago
> start maintaining the stack instead of just endlessly complaining about Wayland it'll only get worse. This is actually what forced me to migrate to Wayland, seeing lots of people complaining about Wayland but not seeing people stepping up to maintain X11. And those who used to maintain X11, built Wayland instead. Yes, Wayland isn't perfect, but for professionals who just want shit to continue working, you kind of have to move to the software that is being maintained, for better or worse.
- sprash 10mo ago
  Always the same lies. People "stepped up" in the and as a result were outright banned from the gitlab (instead of e.g. just rejecting pull requests). Current maintainers refuse to do any release management and instead treat every merge into master as a new release. This kind of sabotage makes development or contributing very difficult. Also the people that used to maintain X11 (e.g. Keith Packard) had nothing to do with building Wayland. Wayland on the other is just a insanely stupid API. Everybody advocating for Wayland should be forced to write a simple client at least once without relying on behemoths like GTK or Qt.
  - bitwize 10mo ago
    > People "stepped up" If by "people" you mean a fascist who doesn't know how to program, then sure. But the sensible people who don't present a security threat with their politics or with shitty code are 100% in the Wayland camp. > Also the people that used to maintain X11 (e.g. Keith Packard) had nothing to do with building Wayland. Those people aren't maintaining X11 today, are they? The people who are maintaining X11 today have put it in bugfix-only mode and have told you, many times, that the future is Wayland. End of discussion. Look, you want to run a retro 90s desktop for shits and giggles, that's great. There's even an officially supported path for this use case: Ariadne Conill's Wayback. But the DEs and the toolkits are all removing X11 support within the next year or two. There is no future there. You want to keep running modern software, you will have to switch to Wayland eventually—and soon. > Wayland on the other is just a insanely stupid API. Everybody advocating for Wayland should be forced to write a simple client at least once without relying on behemoths like GTK or Qt. Nobody actually develops applications that way. They all use a toolkit, and the behemoths cover pretty much 90% of actual application development (modulo things like Electron). Both of those, by the way, are deprecating X11 support.

gdevenyi 10mo ago

Did you report this as a bug?

blueflow 10mo ago
No, i attempted to use CachyOS as ready-to-go distro to stop contributing. Instead of starting to contribute to CachyOS, i went back to my previous distro where i already do contribute.
- gosub100 10mo ago
  I had a similar beef with FreeBSD ports. And to be fair, they specifically disclaim "liability" to what the package maintainers do because they are separate groups. But the one time I tried going off the beaten path from pkg (which installs binaries) and went to /usr/local/ports and actually tried to build something from scratch, it just choked on dependencies and quit. IIRC, I tried to build vim from scratch, but during the menuconfig, selected different "cflags" (or whatever they call them) to add additional features. When you do this, it pulls in more packages, and eventually something failed to compile the way I had configured it. I realize there's probably N! different combinations of packages / dependencies. But still it left me thinking "why bother releasing this crap/give me the option to customize at all if you don't even do basic tests on it?".
dabockster 10mo ago
This kind of bug shouldn't happen in the first place. Totally unacceptable move by the CachyOS team.