3 ms·

Assuming a grad income of $80k is an insane starting assumption. MAYBE you’re making that in software (good luck getting your foot in the door). Any other indu

Assuming a grad income of $80k is an insane starting assumption. MAYBE you’re making that in software (good luck getting your foot in the door). Any other industry? Biology? Social sciences? Academia? Manufacturing? I struggle to think of anything other than finance that has a shot of STARTING at $80k. Hell I didn’t hit $80k in software industry until ~3 years in and I thought I was (I indeed WAS) very lucky.

alephnerd 10mo ago
Your numbers seem to be a couple years out of date, or maybe you're (no offense) living in an economic backwater like Florida where salaries are severely depressed due to the tourism effect. The base salaries for Entry level SWE roles are in the $80k-100k range nationally [0]. Additionally, most finance roles start in that ranges, though high finance has starting salaries comparable to Big Tech new grad. Even Biotech new grad salaries tend to be in the $60k-80k range. Same with manufacturing engineering roles [1] [0] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-level/locations/united-states https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-leve... [1] - https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/entry-manufacturing-engineer-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/entry-manuf...
- givemeethekeys 10mo ago
  > like Florida If Florida is "backwater", then so is most of the rest of the country outside of a handful of overpriced cities where earning 80k is required to be able to afford a room in an apartment - not the whole apartment, and certainly not buying one.
  - alephnerd 10mo ago
    I mean yea, they absolutely are economically speaking - especially when looking at where new grad college educated jobs are located [0]. Heck, most states have fallen into a technical recession [1]. Florida is weird simply because of how much tourism and retirement adjacent industries skew it's economy (eg. Elderly care, primary care, etc) - in fact, healthcare services (as in elderly care, hospice care, and homecare) is the only non-skilled industry that is seeing a significant expansion in the US. I personally along with HN, other VCs, and PE funds have been actively following the MSO space for a couple years now because of this boom. And I say this as someone who kinda likes Florida (Dr Philips reminds me and moreso the missus of bougie gated communities back in ASEAN - it's a nice place for us to Fat FIRE). [0] - https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2025/02/28/white-collar-workers-denver-jobs https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2025/02/28/white-collar-w... [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/e9be3e3f-2efe-42f7-b2d2-8ab3efea27a8 https://www.ft.com/content/e9be3e3f-2efe-42f7-b2d2-8ab3efea2...
    - selimthegrim 10mo ago
      Living in Louisiana, salaries here are in the same bucket as FL.
      - alephnerd 10mo ago
        Oof that is a shame given how severely CoL has risen across much of the South. Salary expectations on the employers side is just too low, but then again, I guess most industries are low margins ones sadly.
        selimthegrim 10mo ago
        Hopefully, it’ll get better in a longer time scale than I have unfortunately - I’m targeting a move to the East Coast.
Suppafly 10mo ago
>Assuming a grad income of $80k is an insane starting assumption. It doesn't really matter if you consider it to be insane. The studies on this stuff always compare averages to averages, and average college grads do better in the long run no matter how optimistically you cook the books to make the inverse seem likely.
- apparent 10mo ago
  > average college grads do better in the long run no matter how optimistically you cook the books to make the inverse seem likely This is far from true when you consider the selection bias of who goes to college, and the sheepskin effect.
  - Suppafly 10mo ago
    Doesn't the so called sheepskin effect literally just reflect this fact?
- csomar 10mo ago
  Here is my made up guess: The average university graduate will do better without degree than the current non-grad averages. You are making the assumption that it all boils down to the degree (the difference in income). This can't be possible (maybe a majority of it, but not all of it). There are other factors (like being from a middle-class, higher IQ, etc.) that selects for going to Uni. and this has effect later on income.
apparent 10mo ago
Academia at $80k? After a PhD, sure. There may be some grad programs where you get a stipend north of $60k, but those are probably located in very HCoL places, so you can be assured you won't be saving anything.

alephnerd 10mo ago

Your numbers seem to be a couple years out of date, or maybe you're (no offense) living in an economic backwater like Florida where salaries are severely depressed due to the tourism effect. The base salaries for Entry level SWE roles are in the $80k-100k range nationally [0]. Additionally, most finance roles start in that ranges, though high finance has starting salaries comparable to Big Tech new grad. Even Biotech new grad salaries tend to be in the $60k-80k range. Same with manufacturing engineering roles [1] [0] - https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-level/locations/united-states https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/levels/entry-leve... [1] - https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/entry-manufacturing-engineer-salary https://www.salary.com/research/salary/alternate/entry-manuf...

givemeethekeys 10mo ago
> like Florida If Florida is "backwater", then so is most of the rest of the country outside of a handful of overpriced cities where earning 80k is required to be able to afford a room in an apartment - not the whole apartment, and certainly not buying one.
- alephnerd 10mo ago
  I mean yea, they absolutely are economically speaking - especially when looking at where new grad college educated jobs are located [0]. Heck, most states have fallen into a technical recession [1]. Florida is weird simply because of how much tourism and retirement adjacent industries skew it's economy (eg. Elderly care, primary care, etc) - in fact, healthcare services (as in elderly care, hospice care, and homecare) is the only non-skilled industry that is seeing a significant expansion in the US. I personally along with HN, other VCs, and PE funds have been actively following the MSO space for a couple years now because of this boom. And I say this as someone who kinda likes Florida (Dr Philips reminds me and moreso the missus of bougie gated communities back in ASEAN - it's a nice place for us to Fat FIRE). [0] - https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2025/02/28/white-collar-workers-denver-jobs https://www.axios.com/local/denver/2025/02/28/white-collar-w... [1] - https://www.ft.com/content/e9be3e3f-2efe-42f7-b2d2-8ab3efea27a8 https://www.ft.com/content/e9be3e3f-2efe-42f7-b2d2-8ab3efea2...
  - selimthegrim 10mo ago
    Living in Louisiana, salaries here are in the same bucket as FL.
    - alephnerd 10mo ago
      Oof that is a shame given how severely CoL has risen across much of the South. Salary expectations on the employers side is just too low, but then again, I guess most industries are low margins ones sadly.
      - selimthegrim 10mo ago
        Hopefully, it’ll get better in a longer time scale than I have unfortunately - I’m targeting a move to the East Coast.

Suppafly 10mo ago

>Assuming a grad income of $80k is an insane starting assumption. It doesn't really matter if you consider it to be insane. The studies on this stuff always compare averages to averages, and average college grads do better in the long run no matter how optimistically you cook the books to make the inverse seem likely.

apparent 10mo ago
> average college grads do better in the long run no matter how optimistically you cook the books to make the inverse seem likely This is far from true when you consider the selection bias of who goes to college, and the sheepskin effect.
- Suppafly 10mo ago
  Doesn't the so called sheepskin effect literally just reflect this fact?
csomar 10mo ago
Here is my made up guess: The average university graduate will do better without degree than the current non-grad averages. You are making the assumption that it all boils down to the degree (the difference in income). This can't be possible (maybe a majority of it, but not all of it). There are other factors (like being from a middle-class, higher IQ, etc.) that selects for going to Uni. and this has effect later on income.

apparent 10mo ago

Academia at $80k? After a PhD, sure. There may be some grad programs where you get a stipend north of $60k, but those are probably located in very HCoL places, so you can be assured you won't be saving anything.