4 ms·

Yes. It hurts you when recruiting employees and winning customers too. It's not insurmountable, obviously, but it's a significant handicap. Hit the gym and pay

by tlb 14y ago

Yes. It hurts you when recruiting employees and winning customers too. It's not insurmountable, obviously, but it's a significant handicap. Hit the gym and pay attention to how you look overall: zits, bad hair, body odor, bad clothes, bad table manners also hurt you.

twog 14y ago
This is the best answer. Keep all aspects of your appearance and personal life in order, so that when you conducting business, there is nothing else for your employees, investors, and customers to worry about.
- codegeek 14y ago
  Keep in mind though that in certain cases (not majority), being obese is quite different than bad odor, bad clothes etc. Reason being that in those cases, it is a disorder (I personally know someone with this problem) while bad odor, bad clothes etc. are still something that can be controlled and resolved.
clicks 14y ago
> ... zits, bad hair, body odor, bad clothes, bad table manners also hurt you. I wasn't born in America (I'm Indian -- I'm used to eating rice with my bare hands) -- never ate American food, thus I have no table manners. Where/how do I learn them? I've tried to read some internet articles and such but that didn't help me -- I'm still quite messy with my handling of fork and knife (and not very knowledgeable about what to say when and how ("pass me that that dish over there please?")
- calbear81 14y ago
  I would say the best way is through careful social observation. Put yourself in many different types of situations and observe the unspoken "rules" around mannerisms. Try and eat at different restaurants, attend a ball game, go to the opera, join a meetup -- each one of these different scenarios will help you learn and grow.
nvarsj 14y ago
This is a pretty narrow view. Half of the things you listed are largely genetic and insurmountable for many. Maybe it becomes important for customers (depending largely on the business and type of customer). But for employees? You think stunning good looks and table manners is what gets skilled engineers to work for you?
- tlb 14y ago
  You're caricaturing what I said, which is not good HN manners. The most effective leaders project an image of getting what they want, regardless of obstacles. People prefer to work for, do business with, and invest in people who can maintain that image. If you think leadership should be a human right granted equally to all people regardless of genetics, society has a long way to go. Fortunately, it's possible to live a fulfilling life without being a leader.
tptacek 14y ago
It's an obstacle because it saps your confidence. I have in my life never been what you'd call a pentathlete and am in my old age tending towards a more sitcom-dad appearance (modulo the torn-up clothes, 4 day stubble, and unkempt hair). I own recruiting for an 7+ y/o company (that I cofounded) that is significantly larger than the median YC company; I'm also one of 4 key sales team members. I've had those roles since the company started; I also recruited our President. There's no correlation I can observe between athleticism and sales/recruiting success. I've also spent years of my life doing enterprise sales (as a product manager riding along with account managers to F-500 accounts). I may in this capacity have accumulated more direct sales experience than you have. Let me set you straight on something right away: a demonstrable ability for eating steak while receiving a lap dance is far more predictive of sales ability than one's ability to do a pull-up. The salespeople who could finish a marathon did not as a rule outperform the salespeople who would have felt at home eating onion cheeseburgers at 9AM on the mortgage desk at Salomon in 1987. There is a clear and obvious correlation between selling ability and confidence. Every successful salesperson (or recruiting or, probably, fundraiser) I've known could walk into a room, look you in the eye, and confidently ask for the sale. Confident people can take command of a room; they sieze the channel and shut off the normal conversational flow control signals that sales targets rely on to blow people off. They do it without trying and often without the target even noticing it. It's about confidence and, to an extent, about shamelessness and an ability to deal with rejection. Culturally --- perhaps for good reasons given the health issues involved --- people with appearance handicaps are conditioned to be deferential instead of confident, and to fear rejection, probably because they face it in life situations where other people never even have to think about rejection. But apart from body odor and wildly inappropriate dress, physical appearance isn't so much a direct obstacle as it is a handicap to developing confidence. So I recommend that the reader ignore the comment I'm replying to. "Hitting the gym" is, empirically, not going to get you (a) thinner any time soon (though it will make you healthier and, if you're me, drastically reduce your blood pressure) or (b) funded. Take a shower and stop giving a shit what people think about your appearance.

by tlb 14y ago

twog 14y ago

This is the best answer. Keep all aspects of your appearance and personal life in order, so that when you conducting business, there is nothing else for your employees, investors, and customers to worry about.

codegeek 14y ago
Keep in mind though that in certain cases (not majority), being obese is quite different than bad odor, bad clothes etc. Reason being that in those cases, it is a disorder (I personally know someone with this problem) while bad odor, bad clothes etc. are still something that can be controlled and resolved.

clicks 14y ago

> ... zits, bad hair, body odor, bad clothes, bad table manners also hurt you. I wasn't born in America (I'm Indian -- I'm used to eating rice with my bare hands) -- never ate American food, thus I have no table manners. Where/how do I learn them? I've tried to read some internet articles and such but that didn't help me -- I'm still quite messy with my handling of fork and knife (and not very knowledgeable about what to say when and how ("pass me that that dish over there please?")

calbear81 14y ago
I would say the best way is through careful social observation. Put yourself in many different types of situations and observe the unspoken "rules" around mannerisms. Try and eat at different restaurants, attend a ball game, go to the opera, join a meetup -- each one of these different scenarios will help you learn and grow.

nvarsj 14y ago

This is a pretty narrow view. Half of the things you listed are largely genetic and insurmountable for many. Maybe it becomes important for customers (depending largely on the business and type of customer). But for employees? You think stunning good looks and table manners is what gets skilled engineers to work for you?

tlb 14y ago
You're caricaturing what I said, which is not good HN manners. The most effective leaders project an image of getting what they want, regardless of obstacles. People prefer to work for, do business with, and invest in people who can maintain that image. If you think leadership should be a human right granted equally to all people regardless of genetics, society has a long way to go. Fortunately, it's possible to live a fulfilling life without being a leader.

tptacek 14y ago

It's an obstacle because it saps your confidence. I have in my life never been what you'd call a pentathlete and am in my old age tending towards a more sitcom-dad appearance (modulo the torn-up clothes, 4 day stubble, and unkempt hair). I own recruiting for an 7+ y/o company (that I cofounded) that is significantly larger than the median YC company; I'm also one of 4 key sales team members. I've had those roles since the company started; I also recruited our President. There's no correlation I can observe between athleticism and sales/recruiting success. I've also spent years of my life doing enterprise sales (as a product manager riding along with account managers to F-500 accounts). I may in this capacity have accumulated more direct sales experience than you have. Let me set you straight on something right away: a demonstrable ability for eating steak while receiving a lap dance is far more predictive of sales ability than one's ability to do a pull-up. The salespeople who could finish a marathon did not as a rule outperform the salespeople who would have felt at home eating onion cheeseburgers at 9AM on the mortgage desk at Salomon in 1987. There is a clear and obvious correlation between selling ability and confidence. Every successful salesperson (or recruiting or, probably, fundraiser) I've known could walk into a room, look you in the eye, and confidently ask for the sale. Confident people can take command of a room; they sieze the channel and shut off the normal conversational flow control signals that sales targets rely on to blow people off. They do it without trying and often without the target even noticing it. It's about confidence and, to an extent, about shamelessness and an ability to deal with rejection. Culturally --- perhaps for good reasons given the health issues involved --- people with appearance handicaps are conditioned to be deferential instead of confident, and to fear rejection, probably because they face it in life situations where other people never even have to think about rejection. But apart from body odor and wildly inappropriate dress, physical appearance isn't so much a direct obstacle as it is a handicap to developing confidence. So I recommend that the reader ignore the comment I'm replying to. "Hitting the gym" is, empirically, not going to get you (a) thinner any time soon (though it will make you healthier and, if you're me, drastically reduce your blood pressure) or (b) funded. Take a shower and stop giving a shit what people think about your appearance.