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America needs to reflect on why it's unique amongst first world countries at having third world problems.

by aeonfox 10mo ago

JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
> America needs to reflect on why it's unique When it’s unique, yes. In the case, metal theft is documented in Australia, Australia, Canada, France, Czechia, the Netherlands and the UK [1]. (To be fair, I’m not seeing any sources credibly auditing prevalence versus occurrence.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft#Notable_metal_thefts_and_law_enforcement_efforts_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft#Notable_metal_thef...
- aeonfox 10mo ago
  Right. One instance of metal theft in any country is enough to discredit the argument. As someone who lives in Australia, I've seen it show up in the news here just once. And I've spent time in other first world countries including the US, so my opinion doesn't come from a place of ignorance.
  - lostlogin 10mo ago
    If you search, there is a ton about it, and it's a fast growing problem. eg https://www.premier.sa.gov.au/media-releases/news-items/crackdown-on-scrap-metal-theft https://www.premier.sa.gov.au/media-releases/news-items/crac...
    - aeonfox 10mo ago
      I stand corrected. Australia has third-world problems.
  - robocat 10mo ago
    I live in New Zealand and I see or hear of thefts in my old neighbourhood (Woolston). Yet I can't recall anything about the issue on the news. Every bit of reliable information I've had points to Meth users (although many years ago I knew of opiate users trying to get copper). I was recently in New Orleans and had two theft surprises (one positive, one negative: 1: walking in Gretna I noticed an aluminium ladder under a house. You don't leave them visible at home because they get stolen (I presume for metal) 2: an Uber driver pointed out the theft of Aluminium guard rails. Obviously missing at road side. Needed grinders since they were welded infrastructure. I haven't seen much of that level of theft in Christchurch yet.
    - aeonfox 10mo ago
      As a further point of contrast between the US and Oceania, the kind of copper theft happening in the OP are disabling communications systems: > From January to June of this year, 9,770 incidents of intentional theft or sabotage on communications networks were reported, according to the Internet & Television Association, a trade group known as NCTA. That is nearly double the number reported in the prior six-month period. The attacks disrupted service for more than eight million customers. > The cut lines have disrupted 911 emergency calls and internet and landline services, shut down at least one school and left whole city blocks in the dark. ... and to contrast, here in Australia, the mobile networks hadn't properly QAed their production deployment and access to emergency services causing an outage for 13-hours, likely causing people to die. The response was immediately establishing an inquiry and enacting new laws within 31 days of the incident. https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2025/-no-excuses--as-optus-upgrade-blamed-for-multiple-deaths.html https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2025/-no-excuses--as-optus-upg... https://www.acma.gov.au/articles/2025-10/acma-strengthens-industry-triple-zero-rules https://www.acma.gov.au/articles/2025-10/acma-strengthens-in... https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Environment_and_Communications/TripleZero48P https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Sen... In the past few years I've seen so many instances of day-light smash and grabs happening in the US in broad daylight filling my feeds. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop – will that wave of criminality reach here? Certainly there's been an significant uptick of knife crime in Australia, people with mental health issues shooting cops and stabbing civilians, and the housing crisis is really causing problems around homelessness, but even still, Australia has nothing on the brazenness and scale of what is happening in the US. So when I say that third world problems are affecting the US, I refer to this broader situation.
sltkr 10mo ago
I didn't do a quantative analysis (I bet neither did you), but copper theft happens everywhere: - https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/heilbronn/tonnenweise-kupferklau-am-schemelsbergtunnel-weinsberg-100.html https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/heilbronn/t... - https://www.ladepeche.fr/2025/11/14/info-la-depeche-explosive-serie-de-vols-de-cuivre-21-km-de-cables-derobes-orange-accuse-211-000-eur-de-pertes-13050050.php https://www.ladepeche.fr/2025/11/14/info-la-depeche-explosiv... - https://nos.nl/artikel/2591857-na-koperdiefstal-in-veenhuizen-worden-regenpijpen-vervangen-door-replica-s https://nos.nl/artikel/2591857-na-koperdiefstal-in-veenhuize...
- aeonfox 10mo ago
  Basically a repeat of the sibling comment, so I won't repeat my reply.
  - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
    Not applicable? I explicitly called out that Wikipedia doesn’t provide any sense around frequency. The comment you’re replying to here does.
    - aeonfox 10mo ago
      I just took them on their word. > I didn't do a quantative analysis And these seem like single data points, one each for 3 different countries, not really giving a sense of frequency. So I'm not sure what you mean.
      - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
        > not really giving a sense of frequency Two of their sources are from this month, all three are from this year.
        aeonfox 10mo ago
        So three instances in the EU for the year. I suppose that's something. All I know is I don't see people with angle grinders taking down local infrastructure in Australia. Maybe if we matched in population it would be the same? I don't know. But I'm checked out of this argument, because I'm certain anyone who's lived in the US and, say, comes to Australia, would recognise the stark difference in social outcomes and crime levels. But why reflect on that at all? It's far easier to quibble over minutiae.
raggles 10mo ago
Not just America. People are stealing copper in very rural areas in my country; in many cases the price they get is hardly paying for the petrol to drive there. We have a whole team now in my company dedicated to repairing damage from copper theft, it's rampant.
- aeonfox 10mo ago
  Very different vibe to people just doing this at scale on the side of suburban streets.

America needs to reflect on why it's unique amongst first world countries at having third world problems.

by aeonfox 10mo ago

America needs to reflect on why it's unique amongst first world countries at having third world problems.

> America needs to reflect on why it's unique When it’s unique, yes. In the case, metal theft is documented in Australia, Australia, Canada, France, Czechia, the Netherlands and the UK [1]. (To be fair, I’m not seeing any sources credibly auditing prevalence versus occurrence.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft#Notable_metal_thefts_and_law_enforcement_efforts_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_theft#Notable_metal_thef...

aeonfox 10mo ago
Right. One instance of metal theft in any country is enough to discredit the argument. As someone who lives in Australia, I've seen it show up in the news here just once. And I've spent time in other first world countries including the US, so my opinion doesn't come from a place of ignorance.
- lostlogin 10mo ago
  If you search, there is a ton about it, and it's a fast growing problem. eg https://www.premier.sa.gov.au/media-releases/news-items/crackdown-on-scrap-metal-theft https://www.premier.sa.gov.au/media-releases/news-items/crac...
  - aeonfox 10mo ago
    I stand corrected. Australia has third-world problems.
- robocat 10mo ago
  I live in New Zealand and I see or hear of thefts in my old neighbourhood (Woolston). Yet I can't recall anything about the issue on the news. Every bit of reliable information I've had points to Meth users (although many years ago I knew of opiate users trying to get copper). I was recently in New Orleans and had two theft surprises (one positive, one negative: 1: walking in Gretna I noticed an aluminium ladder under a house. You don't leave them visible at home because they get stolen (I presume for metal) 2: an Uber driver pointed out the theft of Aluminium guard rails. Obviously missing at road side. Needed grinders since they were welded infrastructure. I haven't seen much of that level of theft in Christchurch yet.
  - aeonfox 10mo ago
    As a further point of contrast between the US and Oceania, the kind of copper theft happening in the OP are disabling communications systems: > From January to June of this year, 9,770 incidents of intentional theft or sabotage on communications networks were reported, according to the Internet & Television Association, a trade group known as NCTA. That is nearly double the number reported in the prior six-month period. The attacks disrupted service for more than eight million customers. > The cut lines have disrupted 911 emergency calls and internet and landline services, shut down at least one school and left whole city blocks in the dark. ... and to contrast, here in Australia, the mobile networks hadn't properly QAed their production deployment and access to emergency services causing an outage for 13-hours, likely causing people to die. The response was immediately establishing an inquiry and enacting new laws within 31 days of the incident. https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2025/-no-excuses--as-optus-upgrade-blamed-for-multiple-deaths.html https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2025/-no-excuses--as-optus-upg... https://www.acma.gov.au/articles/2025-10/acma-strengthens-industry-triple-zero-rules https://www.acma.gov.au/articles/2025-10/acma-strengthens-in... https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Senate/Environment_and_Communications/TripleZero48P https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Sen... In the past few years I've seen so many instances of day-light smash and grabs happening in the US in broad daylight filling my feeds. I've been waiting for the other shoe to drop – will that wave of criminality reach here? Certainly there's been an significant uptick of knife crime in Australia, people with mental health issues shooting cops and stabbing civilians, and the housing crisis is really causing problems around homelessness, but even still, Australia has nothing on the brazenness and scale of what is happening in the US. So when I say that third world problems are affecting the US, I refer to this broader situation.

sltkr 10mo ago

I didn't do a quantative analysis (I bet neither did you), but copper theft happens everywhere: - https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/heilbronn/tonnenweise-kupferklau-am-schemelsbergtunnel-weinsberg-100.html https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/baden-wuerttemberg/heilbronn/t... - https://www.ladepeche.fr/2025/11/14/info-la-depeche-explosive-serie-de-vols-de-cuivre-21-km-de-cables-derobes-orange-accuse-211-000-eur-de-pertes-13050050.php https://www.ladepeche.fr/2025/11/14/info-la-depeche-explosiv... - https://nos.nl/artikel/2591857-na-koperdiefstal-in-veenhuizen-worden-regenpijpen-vervangen-door-replica-s https://nos.nl/artikel/2591857-na-koperdiefstal-in-veenhuize...

aeonfox 10mo ago
Basically a repeat of the sibling comment, so I won't repeat my reply.
- JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
  Not applicable? I explicitly called out that Wikipedia doesn’t provide any sense around frequency. The comment you’re replying to here does.
  - aeonfox 10mo ago
    I just took them on their word. > I didn't do a quantative analysis And these seem like single data points, one each for 3 different countries, not really giving a sense of frequency. So I'm not sure what you mean.
    - JumpCrisscross 10mo ago
      > not really giving a sense of frequency Two of their sources are from this month, all three are from this year.
      - aeonfox 10mo ago
        So three instances in the EU for the year. I suppose that's something. All I know is I don't see people with angle grinders taking down local infrastructure in Australia. Maybe if we matched in population it would be the same? I don't know. But I'm checked out of this argument, because I'm certain anyone who's lived in the US and, say, comes to Australia, would recognise the stark difference in social outcomes and crime levels. But why reflect on that at all? It's far easier to quibble over minutiae.

raggles 10mo ago

Not just America. People are stealing copper in very rural areas in my country; in many cases the price they get is hardly paying for the petrol to drive there. We have a whole team now in my company dedicated to repairing damage from copper theft, it's rampant.

aeonfox 10mo ago
Very different vibe to people just doing this at scale on the side of suburban streets.