5 ms·

> You lose ambient awareness of coworkers’ problems, and asking for help is a bigger burden. When I was in school, I discovered that I studied more effectively

by nirui 10mo ago

> You lose ambient awareness of coworkers’ problems, and asking for help is a bigger burden. When I was in school, I discovered that I studied more effectively and efficiently when I'm surrounded by other students who's also studying. Then at work, I found I worked much more productively if my coworkers are all doing their work. It's not just simply peer pressure, it's an atmosphere effect, it tell you "hey, this place is for doing this thing, now you do it too", it makes you concentrate. Sometimes being concentrated is a good thing.

satvikpendem 10mo ago
That sounds akin to like body doubling, a method used by those who have ADHD.
- card_zero 10mo ago
  Is there also an opposite effect? I concentrate best in solitude, preferably somewhere like an abandoned lighthouse.
  - bigiain 10mo ago
    I'm not sure that's necessarily "opposite"? I feel much the same as the article author in that "this place is for doing this thing, now you do it too" Is somehow powerfully motivating. But at least for me it's about the place, not the other people in the place. I had the same covid-related journey from an office worker to unexpectedly fully remote. But I'm also lucky/privileged enough to be able to dedicate a room in my house that's quite separate from the rest of the house, and for me that's "where I work". I had coworkers who started out having to work from their kitchen table, some with housemates or children around - pretty sure that would have completely killed my productivity. I do sometimes resent losing that room, effectively subsidising my boss by relieving his office rent costs. It used to be my "workshop" where I used my 3D printers, built drones, tinkered with electronics, and repaired stuff that broke - and I just don't do those things much any more because going into that room now feels way to much like "work" not "hobby or play".
    - WalterBright 10mo ago
      We have the Dlang conference once a year where we all meet in person. It's amazingly productive. And yes, we do video chatting frequently. It just isn't the same.
      - card_zero 10mo ago
        If only it could be daily, all year round! Or maybe the part about it happening once a year is a vital ingredient.
  - taurath 10mo ago
    Some folks just socialize internally, or have enough little self loops to approach a task in multiple ways
  - MarcelOlsz 10mo ago
    I'm still trying to replicate my favourite working condition: being on a laptop in the middle of a concert. Pure focus.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
godelski 10mo ago
I prefer working in person iff I have a door. Doors are a necessity in the work place and I hate open offices. 1 other person is okay but I'd rather a small room than no room. A door let's be close out the rest of the world when I'm in the zone. There's time for collaboration but there's time for isolation. In a physical place I can turn off all notifications and close my door. I can make a space where there's low physical distractions like noise or people walking in front of my desk (or talking 5 feet away...) A slack setting of "away" is interpreted as either "eh, they'll probably answer" or "they forgot to turn it back off" (or they don't notice/care)[0,1]. But a physical door, people are much more cautious about knocking on it when it's usually open. It's not the same thing as a busy sign. But I also don't think a door should be usually closed. It should usually be open. Indie collaboration but also respect your coworkers. A door is a great communication tool that you just can't get online. [0] and for the love of god, do not hit me up with "hey". It's an asynchronous messaging system. I'll read the notification as it comes across my screen. Don't try to become synchronous with me that way. Call me, physically find me, or ask when I'm free for a call. [1] seriously, my time is just as valuable as yours. To me it's even more valuable.
saghm 10mo ago
The question is whether enough of the other people around you have the same characteristic you describe that it's reasonable to require it for everyone, including the ones that don't. For those of us who don't work better that way, being required to go into an office in person to provide ambience for our coworkers is extremely dehumanizing.
- fluoridation 10mo ago
  How is that dehumanizing when (by the parameters you've set) you're required to do it because you're human?
  - kaffekaka 10mo ago
    Because you are used as a tool for other people.
    - fluoridation 10mo ago
      Is that any more dehumanizing than just working a job in general?
      - saghm 10mo ago
        Not all jobs are equally dehumanizing, and not everyone finds the same things equally dehumanizing, especially in the context of what one's job is described as is part of the overall experience. If I'm hired with the expectation of writing software, I don't want to be expected to run out and get coffee for my coworkers so that they can write software better. That doesn't mean that I think everyone will find going on coffee runs dehumanizing, or that writing software can't be dehumanizing for some people; the point is that I value my autonomy in deciding to accept a job with the parameters that work for me, and I happen to find that I'm most happy when I can proactively contribute things that help my coworkers rather than passively being a part of their environment or having expectations change without my consent (e.g. being told after multiple years working remotely that I need to start going into an office or "voluntarily" leave).
artyom 10mo ago
This is a good take. I experienced the same. Except in most cases it isn't true. Yes, my best school/university years were when surrounded by people interested in studying. That was the optimal scenario, and everyone's reward was passing grades. But in work nowadays, the reward is getting paid and promoted. That's not achieved by work, but by socializing, playing politics, creating mutually-beneficial relationships, building empires, and using everyone else. Which is exactly what happens in a moderately sized workplace today, and one of the main reasons everyone else wants to stay home. Remote work only sucks if your goals are misaligned with doing the actual job.
fastasucan 10mo ago
I am like this as well. It is nice to transition into a space where everything should be tailored to do work. However, sadly my employer is doing their best to make this as hard as possible now. Despite not allowing people to work from home, they are allowing the consultants to do it, and now slowly implementing a "clean desk" policy which drives me up the wall. Sitting and working 8 hours a day on a "clean desk" with equipment you cant tailor to your needs just sucks.
jankdc 10mo ago
I noticed this effect as well when I work in a vibrant cafe. Someone else's productivity is infectious and it makes me more inspired to do the things I set out to do that day, than the intrinsic pressure of needing to do the task.

by nirui 10mo ago

satvikpendem 10mo ago

That sounds akin to like body doubling, a method used by those who have ADHD.

card_zero 10mo ago
Is there also an opposite effect? I concentrate best in solitude, preferably somewhere like an abandoned lighthouse.
- bigiain 10mo ago
  I'm not sure that's necessarily "opposite"? I feel much the same as the article author in that "this place is for doing this thing, now you do it too" Is somehow powerfully motivating. But at least for me it's about the place, not the other people in the place. I had the same covid-related journey from an office worker to unexpectedly fully remote. But I'm also lucky/privileged enough to be able to dedicate a room in my house that's quite separate from the rest of the house, and for me that's "where I work". I had coworkers who started out having to work from their kitchen table, some with housemates or children around - pretty sure that would have completely killed my productivity. I do sometimes resent losing that room, effectively subsidising my boss by relieving his office rent costs. It used to be my "workshop" where I used my 3D printers, built drones, tinkered with electronics, and repaired stuff that broke - and I just don't do those things much any more because going into that room now feels way to much like "work" not "hobby or play".
  - WalterBright 10mo ago
    We have the Dlang conference once a year where we all meet in person. It's amazingly productive. And yes, we do video chatting frequently. It just isn't the same.
    - card_zero 10mo ago
      If only it could be daily, all year round! Or maybe the part about it happening once a year is a vital ingredient.
- taurath 10mo ago
  Some folks just socialize internally, or have enough little self loops to approach a task in multiple ways
- MarcelOlsz 10mo ago
  I'm still trying to replicate my favourite working condition: being on a laptop in the middle of a concert. Pure focus.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]

godelski 10mo ago

I prefer working in person iff I have a door. Doors are a necessity in the work place and I hate open offices. 1 other person is okay but I'd rather a small room than no room. A door let's be close out the rest of the world when I'm in the zone. There's time for collaboration but there's time for isolation. In a physical place I can turn off all notifications and close my door. I can make a space where there's low physical distractions like noise or people walking in front of my desk (or talking 5 feet away...) A slack setting of "away" is interpreted as either "eh, they'll probably answer" or "they forgot to turn it back off" (or they don't notice/care)[0,1]. But a physical door, people are much more cautious about knocking on it when it's usually open. It's not the same thing as a busy sign. But I also don't think a door should be usually closed. It should usually be open. Indie collaboration but also respect your coworkers. A door is a great communication tool that you just can't get online. [0] and for the love of god, do not hit me up with "hey". It's an asynchronous messaging system. I'll read the notification as it comes across my screen. Don't try to become synchronous with me that way. Call me, physically find me, or ask when I'm free for a call. [1] seriously, my time is just as valuable as yours. To me it's even more valuable.

saghm 10mo ago

The question is whether enough of the other people around you have the same characteristic you describe that it's reasonable to require it for everyone, including the ones that don't. For those of us who don't work better that way, being required to go into an office in person to provide ambience for our coworkers is extremely dehumanizing.

fluoridation 10mo ago
How is that dehumanizing when (by the parameters you've set) you're required to do it because you're human?
- kaffekaka 10mo ago
  Because you are used as a tool for other people.
  - fluoridation 10mo ago
    Is that any more dehumanizing than just working a job in general?
    - saghm 10mo ago
      Not all jobs are equally dehumanizing, and not everyone finds the same things equally dehumanizing, especially in the context of what one's job is described as is part of the overall experience. If I'm hired with the expectation of writing software, I don't want to be expected to run out and get coffee for my coworkers so that they can write software better. That doesn't mean that I think everyone will find going on coffee runs dehumanizing, or that writing software can't be dehumanizing for some people; the point is that I value my autonomy in deciding to accept a job with the parameters that work for me, and I happen to find that I'm most happy when I can proactively contribute things that help my coworkers rather than passively being a part of their environment or having expectations change without my consent (e.g. being told after multiple years working remotely that I need to start going into an office or "voluntarily" leave).

artyom 10mo ago

This is a good take. I experienced the same. Except in most cases it isn't true. Yes, my best school/university years were when surrounded by people interested in studying. That was the optimal scenario, and everyone's reward was passing grades. But in work nowadays, the reward is getting paid and promoted. That's not achieved by work, but by socializing, playing politics, creating mutually-beneficial relationships, building empires, and using everyone else. Which is exactly what happens in a moderately sized workplace today, and one of the main reasons everyone else wants to stay home. Remote work only sucks if your goals are misaligned with doing the actual job.

fastasucan 10mo ago

I am like this as well. It is nice to transition into a space where everything should be tailored to do work. However, sadly my employer is doing their best to make this as hard as possible now. Despite not allowing people to work from home, they are allowing the consultants to do it, and now slowly implementing a "clean desk" policy which drives me up the wall. Sitting and working 8 hours a day on a "clean desk" with equipment you cant tailor to your needs just sucks.

jankdc 10mo ago

I noticed this effect as well when I work in a vibrant cafe. Someone else's productivity is infectious and it makes me more inspired to do the things I set out to do that day, than the intrinsic pressure of needing to do the task.