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How about a "pseudo UBI" that only pays for basic necessities like rent, utilities, groceries and basic healthcare? Any kind of a universal safety net would al

by Razengan 11mo ago

How about a "pseudo UBI" that only pays for basic necessities like rent, utilities, groceries and basic healthcare? Any kind of a universal safety net would allow human civilization as a whole to chill out a bit, and could also reduce various petty scams and/or the damage they cause to people.

anonym29 11mo ago
In 2025, the US Federal government pulled in a a grand total of $5.16 trillion in revenue. Giving all 258 million adult US citizens $1000 a month totals to $3.096 trillion per year. Giving them all $2000 a month totals to $6.192 trillion per year - more than all US tax revenue from all sources combined. Of course, we already have a $1.7 trillion deficit, with $38 trillion and counting in debt without the UBI, and I assume you're not planning on defaulting on our $1 trillion+ in annual interest payments on the debt either, right? How about Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which by themselves take up over half of the entire federal budget, are we keeping those too? If you'd like, we could confiscate 100% of the assets of every billionaire that's a US citizen and hope to sell all of the non-liquid asssets at market prices, that'll get us 9 months worth of current federal spending levels - less if we're adding UBI on top and not getting rid of any other programs. Now if you want to get creative, we could keep funding the military and use it to go after all of the other global billionaires, that'll get us almost through a full 4-year presidential cycle, at the low, low cost of invading just about every other sovereign nation on earth to rob their citizens, too. We could also have the treasury start minting trillion dollar coins to both pay off the debt and fund the UBI, but I don't think you're going to like your $2000 monthly UBI check as much when market rent on a studio is $200,000 a month. If you have better ideas on how to pay for this, I'm all ears.
- jltsiren 11mo ago
  Pretty much every economist who has ever thought seriously about UBI has already given an answer. Most of the funding would come from abolishing progressive income taxes. Instead, the highest (or second highest) bracket would start at 0. With the current federal tax rates and incomes, that would raise an additional ~$3 trillion/year.
- Razengan 11mo ago
  How will it affect your life any more than the military getting trillions and AI companies gobbling billions right now?
wmf 11mo ago
That's already what UBI is.
- Razengan 11mo ago
  I mean as opposed to just handing out cash, that some critics fear people would just blow on hookers and blow.
  - wredcoll 11mo ago
    A) attempting to police that is extremely, extremely expensive not to mention absolutely chockful of corruption and abuse B) repeated studies and measurements have shown that attempting to police it just doesn't do anything.
    - Razengan 11mo ago
      Sounds like the ”Country that tried nothing says it’s impossible” meme. > Issue special debit cards for UBI > Issue special machines/payment processors for those cards to registered merchants, landlords, and utility and healthcare providers.
      - wredcoll 11mo ago
        We have tried that. It's cheaper and more effective to just give people a wad of cash.
        Razengan 11mo ago
        But people who are against UBI by default seem to want some kind of "policing" before they'll consider it. Various countries have various things that operate on similar principles, such as transit cards etc. Hell, even VIDEO GAMES have done this: Special "premium" currencies that you can use only for certain things, buy with realmoney or earn through various activities, and cannot trade.
kyleee 11mo ago
The UK is doing that
- card_zero 11mo ago
  Without requiring people to seek work?
  - tim333 11mo ago
    The UK system is something of a mess with perverse incentives. There is 'job seekers allowance' based on seeking work but a lot of people either work and pay taxes or go on disability which you can do by saying you are depressed and the receive income from the taxes on the working people. The situation makes it quite hard to work if you are on disability and similar which has led the the numbers shooting up https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBrits/comments/1mxxksa/whats_driving_this_massive_increase_in_benefits/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBrits/comments/1mxxksa/whats_dri... If you extrapolate the graph in the link in a few decades no one will work and we'll all live by claiming benefits off each other. UBI might be better.

anonym29 11mo ago

In 2025, the US Federal government pulled in a a grand total of $5.16 trillion in revenue. Giving all 258 million adult US citizens $1000 a month totals to $3.096 trillion per year. Giving them all $2000 a month totals to $6.192 trillion per year - more than all US tax revenue from all sources combined. Of course, we already have a $1.7 trillion deficit, with $38 trillion and counting in debt without the UBI, and I assume you're not planning on defaulting on our $1 trillion+ in annual interest payments on the debt either, right? How about Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, which by themselves take up over half of the entire federal budget, are we keeping those too? If you'd like, we could confiscate 100% of the assets of every billionaire that's a US citizen and hope to sell all of the non-liquid asssets at market prices, that'll get us 9 months worth of current federal spending levels - less if we're adding UBI on top and not getting rid of any other programs. Now if you want to get creative, we could keep funding the military and use it to go after all of the other global billionaires, that'll get us almost through a full 4-year presidential cycle, at the low, low cost of invading just about every other sovereign nation on earth to rob their citizens, too. We could also have the treasury start minting trillion dollar coins to both pay off the debt and fund the UBI, but I don't think you're going to like your $2000 monthly UBI check as much when market rent on a studio is $200,000 a month. If you have better ideas on how to pay for this, I'm all ears.

jltsiren 11mo ago
Pretty much every economist who has ever thought seriously about UBI has already given an answer. Most of the funding would come from abolishing progressive income taxes. Instead, the highest (or second highest) bracket would start at 0. With the current federal tax rates and incomes, that would raise an additional ~$3 trillion/year.
Razengan 11mo ago
How will it affect your life any more than the military getting trillions and AI companies gobbling billions right now?

wmf 11mo ago

That's already what UBI is.

Razengan 11mo ago
I mean as opposed to just handing out cash, that some critics fear people would just blow on hookers and blow.
- wredcoll 11mo ago
  A) attempting to police that is extremely, extremely expensive not to mention absolutely chockful of corruption and abuse B) repeated studies and measurements have shown that attempting to police it just doesn't do anything.
  - Razengan 11mo ago
    Sounds like the ”Country that tried nothing says it’s impossible” meme. > Issue special debit cards for UBI > Issue special machines/payment processors for those cards to registered merchants, landlords, and utility and healthcare providers.
    - wredcoll 11mo ago
      We have tried that. It's cheaper and more effective to just give people a wad of cash.
      - Razengan 11mo ago
        But people who are against UBI by default seem to want some kind of "policing" before they'll consider it. Various countries have various things that operate on similar principles, such as transit cards etc. Hell, even VIDEO GAMES have done this: Special "premium" currencies that you can use only for certain things, buy with realmoney or earn through various activities, and cannot trade.

kyleee 11mo ago

The UK is doing that

card_zero 11mo ago
Without requiring people to seek work?
- tim333 11mo ago
  The UK system is something of a mess with perverse incentives. There is 'job seekers allowance' based on seeking work but a lot of people either work and pay taxes or go on disability which you can do by saying you are depressed and the receive income from the taxes on the working people. The situation makes it quite hard to work if you are on disability and similar which has led the the numbers shooting up https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBrits/comments/1mxxksa/whats_driving_this_massive_increase_in_benefits/ https://www.reddit.com/r/AskBrits/comments/1mxxksa/whats_dri... If you extrapolate the graph in the link in a few decades no one will work and we'll all live by claiming benefits off each other. UBI might be better.