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> Novelty applications like "performance smartphone hardware" will have to wait on the sidelines. A quarter of your revenue isn't a "novelty". > Apple is by f

> Novelty applications like "performance smartphone hardware" will have to wait on the sidelines. A quarter of your revenue isn't a "novelty". > Apple is by far TSMC’s largest customer, accounting for 23% of the Taiwanese chipmaker’s almost $72 billion in revenue in 2022. https://archive.ph/yfGLp https://archive.ph/yfGLp You don't throw away a long term partner over short term AI bubble gains if you intend to be a long term business.

bigyabai 11mo ago
You're right that money talks. I just think you're forgetting which side has more leverage in this game. Apple is most certainly not being thrown away, merely asked to compete at the market price if they want the latest node. Anything else is wasted money from TSMC's perspective, they still make legacy nodes Apple can perfectly well use for the iPhone if they want to save cash.
- GeekyBear 11mo ago
  At most, TSMC will let Nvidia pay up front to build an additional Fab dedicated fully or partially to their use. The way Apple already does: > The investment includes “a multibillion-dollar commitment from Apple to produce advanced silicon in TSMC’s Fab 21 facility in Arizona,” according to Apple’s February announcement. The plan is to double Apple’s Advanced Manufacturing Fund from $5 billion to $10 billion, with TSMC Arizona a primary beneficiary. https://www.aztechcouncil.org/tucson-chipmaker-tsmc-arizona-becomes-central-hub-in-apples-500-billion-investment-strategy-contentoid36854482/ https://www.aztechcouncil.org/tucson-chipmaker-tsmc-arizona-... They aren't going to throw away a long term partner for short term gains.
  - bigyabai 11mo ago
    Nvidia already did. They and Apple were the two primary investors in TSMC's Arizona plant. Kissing ass gets you in the door with TSMC, but it doesn't protect you from other people outbidding the product you want.
    - GeekyBear 11mo ago
      > Kissing ass gets you in the door with TSMC No, but being a long term partner gets you preferential treatment. TSMC has literally been cutting Apple special lower pricing deals while signaling that given Nvidia's extravagant margins, they expect them to pay more per wafer than a normal customer. > TSMC hints at price increase for Nvidia as response to its booming AI hardware business https://www.techspot.com/news/103325-tsmc-hints-increasing-chip-prices-response-nvidia-booming.html https://www.techspot.com/news/103325-tsmc-hints-increasing-c...
      - bigyabai 11mo ago
        Case in point: > "TSMC's contribution to the world and the tech industry is under-represented by its financial results." Huang added that "raising prices is consistent with the value they deliver. I'm very happy to see them succeed."
        GeekyBear 11mo ago
        Lowering prices for Apple while simultaneously raising them for Nvidia doesn't really support your argument. If Nvidia is willing to pay up front to increase TSMC's production capacity, then they get wafers out of that new production capacity.
        bigyabai 11mo ago
        It perfectly supports my argument, if Apple has reduced access to TSMC capacity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand And they objectively do. In 2019 Apple had TSMC 5nm all to themselves; now they're fighting with Nvidia for capacity. Nevermind the rumor that Apple is sampling Intel Foundry Services, the mere fact that there is TSMC 2nm and 3nm capacity Apple is unwilling to buy is proof that their agreement is limited.
        GeekyBear 11mo ago

bigyabai 11mo ago

You're right that money talks. I just think you're forgetting which side has more leverage in this game. Apple is most certainly not being thrown away, merely asked to compete at the market price if they want the latest node. Anything else is wasted money from TSMC's perspective, they still make legacy nodes Apple can perfectly well use for the iPhone if they want to save cash.

GeekyBear 11mo ago
At most, TSMC will let Nvidia pay up front to build an additional Fab dedicated fully or partially to their use. The way Apple already does: > The investment includes “a multibillion-dollar commitment from Apple to produce advanced silicon in TSMC’s Fab 21 facility in Arizona,” according to Apple’s February announcement. The plan is to double Apple’s Advanced Manufacturing Fund from $5 billion to $10 billion, with TSMC Arizona a primary beneficiary. https://www.aztechcouncil.org/tucson-chipmaker-tsmc-arizona-becomes-central-hub-in-apples-500-billion-investment-strategy-contentoid36854482/ https://www.aztechcouncil.org/tucson-chipmaker-tsmc-arizona-... They aren't going to throw away a long term partner for short term gains.
- bigyabai 11mo ago
  Nvidia already did. They and Apple were the two primary investors in TSMC's Arizona plant. Kissing ass gets you in the door with TSMC, but it doesn't protect you from other people outbidding the product you want.
  - GeekyBear 11mo ago
    > Kissing ass gets you in the door with TSMC No, but being a long term partner gets you preferential treatment. TSMC has literally been cutting Apple special lower pricing deals while signaling that given Nvidia's extravagant margins, they expect them to pay more per wafer than a normal customer. > TSMC hints at price increase for Nvidia as response to its booming AI hardware business https://www.techspot.com/news/103325-tsmc-hints-increasing-chip-prices-response-nvidia-booming.html https://www.techspot.com/news/103325-tsmc-hints-increasing-c...
    - bigyabai 11mo ago
      Case in point: > "TSMC's contribution to the world and the tech industry is under-represented by its financial results." Huang added that "raising prices is consistent with the value they deliver. I'm very happy to see them succeed."
      - GeekyBear 11mo ago
        Lowering prices for Apple while simultaneously raising them for Nvidia doesn't really support your argument. If Nvidia is willing to pay up front to increase TSMC's production capacity, then they get wafers out of that new production capacity.
        bigyabai 11mo ago
        It perfectly supports my argument, if Apple has reduced access to TSMC capacity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_elasticity_of_demand And they objectively do. In 2019 Apple had TSMC 5nm all to themselves; now they're fighting with Nvidia for capacity. Nevermind the rumor that Apple is sampling Intel Foundry Services, the mere fact that there is TSMC 2nm and 3nm capacity Apple is unwilling to buy is proof that their agreement is limited.
        GeekyBear 11mo ago