11 ms·
Are Those Spidery Black Things On Mars Dangerous?
- freehunter 14y agoDangerous how? Toxic to humans? At risk of unsettling sand around a rover/human? Is the question asking if they are something that would consciously attack someone? Everything is dangerous. The key to mitigating that danger is planning ahead for it. A leaf seems harmless, but infection from a cut the leaf gave you could kill you. A marshmallow is fluffy and soft, but if you swallow it without chewing, it could expand and suffocate you. Asking if something is dangerous is ridiculous. Asking what it is and how to safely handle it is not. The article does a much better job portraying this than the headline does.
- dpcx 14y agoSeems like they're just trying to get some more clicks.
- ljd 14y agoBetteridge's Law of Headlines is an adage that states, "Any headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word 'no'". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridges_Law_of_Headlines http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridges_Law_of_Headlines
- ximeng 14y agoWe know. https://www.google.com/search?q=site:news.ycombinator.com+betteridge&tbs=qdr:m https://www.google.com/search?q=site:news.ycombinator.com+be... It's been mentioned 19 times already in the last month according to Google.
- stephth 14y agoI didn't. First time I read about it. Either way it doesn't seem very constructive - or gentlemanly - to downvote an informed - and depending on the reader informative - comment.
- ximeng 14y agoI downvoted because it's not relevant to its parent. As freehunter points out, the answer's not "no" it's "please refine the question". Perhaps you found my mini-analysis on the frequency of Betteridge references informative, in which case I welcome your upvotes.
- Lockyy 14y agoIt's getting past informative when I see it posted on every story that involves a question mark. It's an annoying HN meme that needs to go away.
- Codhisattva 14y agoBreaking Headline! "Is Betterridge's Law of Headlines actually a Law?"
- mparlane 14y agoNo.
- jhuckestein 14y agoWithout a scale those images are largely useless.
- ximeng 14y agoI can't quite figure this site out, but if I've got it right, should be around 10 miles. http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_024736_2565 http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_024736_2565 Edit: Ahah, here we are, about 1km: http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_024700_024799/ESP_024736_2565/ESP_024736_2565_MIRB.abrowse.jpg http://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/ESP/ORB_024...
- marcoamorales 14y agoI'm glad I'm not the anyone who noticed this. I don't know if those are just a few millimeters or several meters.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- tocomment 14y ago> they might be colonies of photosynthetic Martian microorganisms, warmed from the sun, now sunbathing in plain view. That's incredible. Is that really possible? I wonder why the rover doesn't check them out? It seems weird it's digging through soil looking for chemicals possibly related to life when there's potential life out in plain view. NASA has some very strange priorities.
- kaizendc 14y agoWhen planning a landing site for each rover mission, NASA considers a variety of factors and makes a best-guess as to the fruitfulness of each site from a scientific perspective. Clearly a team of brilliant scientists has not failed to consider the possibility of exploring these strange spidery features, but they have decided against it for the time being. It doesn't really make sense to assess their "strange priorities" as an outsider looking in with very limited knowledge as to how their decision making process actually works.
- gwern 14y agoYeah; just for starters, such a sandy area seems like a serious risk on its own to a rover, never mind the risk actual geysers would pose. The geysers are interesting, but are they worth jeopardizing an entire rover expedition for?
- troymc 14y agoYou don't have to use a rover. What about a quadcopter or balloon filled with heated gas?
- forgotusername 14y agoGood luck.. the highest atmospheric density on Mars is equal to the density found 35 km above the Earth's surface
- aidenn0 14y ago
- ChuckMcM 14y agoThis stuff blows me away. I think, holy crap this planet has all sorts of real exo-planet kinds of weirdness. I love the idea of reverse icicles although for the life of me I can't imagine what would hold them up once the CO2 gas has vaporized out. One part of me wants to build another Curiosity style rover and catch the next Earth/Mars orbital cycle and put it down near stuff like this. I can believe folks would find this as inspiring as looking back at the planet from the Moon.
- brador 14y agoIs there any chance they could be plants? relying on underground water reserves and appearing every spring to throw around some pollen before slinking back into the cool darkness.
- ChuckMcM 14y agoI'm not a xenobiologist so I couldn't quantify the relative chance of them being 'plants'. But this is the kind of stuff we can speculate on. First, we'll need to be a bit loose with our definitions since 'plant' means a very specific kind of thing. So if we define a 'plant' as a chemical process which creates structure in the presence of certain chemicals such that a transformative chemical reaction is enabled whereby energy in the form of sunlight or heat is used to build additional structure. Then we can see if there is a chemical mix that would have this characteristic output. It is critical to note though that this would also classify a stalactite as a 'plant' which converts calcium carbonate into 'structure' (in this case rock) by exploiting a transfer agent (water). Interesting questions would be "Why vanish in the winter?" what ever hypothesis we come up with has to include the observed effect and behaviors. This is my biggest issue with my 'frozen geyser' hypothesis, it seems like they would continue to exist during winter. Finding better imagery from HiRise would be good too, in particular it would be useful to know if these were vertical structures or not. that would show up as shadows. Lots of fun to think about.
- brador 14y agoWhy not literally a plant? Like leafy, relies on water, comes from a small seed, reproduces via pollen/wind, based on a cell structure. We have plants in the desert here on Earth that blossom once every X years or decades. Is there a reason such a "plant" could not have survived the harsh later years of mars post surface water? Bonus idea: if these are plants relying on ground water, their location would give away the position of said ground water. They could be mapped and their spacial density used to find source pools for humans to tap.
- martian 14y agoThis is awesome! I love that Mars continues to baffle, astound, and fascinate us. Sometimes our 21st century hubris makes us think we are reaching some kind of peak knowledge, but moments like this prove that we yet know so little. In particular, the geology of Mars in an incredibly fascinating topic. If you're looking for a good primer on the subject, I highly recommend Mapping Mars by Oliver Morton. Mapping Mars contains a history of the science, highlighting the major contributors to the field and augmented with interviews from such notable science fiction authors as Kim Stanley Robinson. A good discussion is, for example, how much water exists on the planet. Consensus is now that there is water somewhere, but exactly how much water, where it sits, how it flows: great questions that are attacked with lucid explanations. Hats off to NASA and human curiosity for this grand adventure.
- slashclee 14y agoIn the Mars trilogy (Red Mars/Green Mars/Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson, the term "areology" was coined for describing geology-on-Mars. I always thought that was a great word.
- philbo 14y agoYour point is a good one. However just to interject tangentially, hubris is demonstrably not a 21st century phenomenon, nor imho will it cease to be a phenomenon in any future period of human existence. "Peaks of knowledge" have existed throughout our collective history and the single uniting feature of each is that they are never peaks. Local maxima perhaps, but the upslope of discovery always reasserts itself eventually. Afaik, nothing indicates that the future will differ in this regard.
- fotbr 14y agoNope, black spidery things on Mars aren't dangerous at all. http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100117081507/babylon5/images/c/c8/Mars_Dig_02.png http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100117081507/babylon...
- jl6 14y agoCould they not simply be rocky outcrops that are covered and uncovered by seasonal sandstorms?
- usefulcat 14y agoIf that were the case, they would cast shadows.
- earlyriser 14y agoI see some shadows in the bigger dune at the bottom-left (crossed by the yellow line).
- jl6 14y agoYeah these do kind of look like they have shadows. Plus a rocky outcrop could still be fairly flat and cast minimal shadows. I say it's rock and call Occam's razor on the other theories.
- qxcv 14y agoNot necessarily. The rock may only be a few centimetres underneath the sand dune, in which case it would not appear to protrude out from the dune significantly. There is also the possibility that the "spiders" are black sand[0][1] or silt, as they look suspiciously like some formations on Earth (albeit on a much larger scale): [2]: This is a sand dune on a sand island, but has some black discolouration from rock just below the surface. I'm not sure how far down this rock extends, but its visibility varies depending on the time of year and number of visitors to the island. Note that there is also some grass (brown) and other vegetation (green) around the edge of the clearing (particularly on the southern edge), which is difficult to distinguish from the black rock. [3]: Same island, different clearing. There is still some vegetation in the picture, but it's easier to see the black sand and rock underneath the top layer of white sand. Try playing with the time slider at the top of the page to see how the exposure of the rock changes. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_sand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_sand [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_mineral_sands_ore_deposits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_mineral_sands_ore_deposi... [2] http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.194111,153.379091&z=21&t=k&nmd=20101102 http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.194111,153.379091&z=21... [3] http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.280641,153.410605&z=20&t=k&nmd=20101102 http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-27.280641,153.410605&z=20...
- macey 14y agoThis is such a trip! It kind of pisses me off that I'll die long before we gain a thorough understanding of this kind of stuff.
- creamyhorror 14y ago"Surely I'm not the only one thinking spiceblows..." -- a commenter on that page, Melissa Swanson
- thebigshane 14y agocontext: http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Spice_blow http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Spice_blow
- raverbashing 14y agoI'm waiting for the sandworms
- mlvljr 14y agoequipped with a spade, I suppose?
- jrajav 14y agoSo THAT'S where all the water on Mars went...
- captaintacos 14y agoThe spice must flow
- Eliezer 14y agoSurely I'm not the only one thinking "Shadow ships! Aiiieee!"
- VMG 14y agoonly Ziggy Stardust knows
- nacker 14y agoHim and Andrew Basiago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwE8m50sbWk&playnext=1&list=PL9D28BBEE1CE365F8&feature=results_main https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwE8m50sbWk&playnext=1&#...
- jonknee 14y agoDepends on your point of view I suppose, all of Mars is dangerous (100% lethal!) if you're a human.
- diggan 14y agoUnlike Tellus where nothing is lethal.
- sidcool 14y agoThe top comment here and on reddit is the same!! Either kaax is martian, or just a plagiarist. Here's the link: http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/10vrag/are_those_spidery_black_things_on_mars_dangerous/?already_submitted=true http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/10vrag/are_those_sp...
- aw3c2 14y agoIt is a spammer that takes HN comments and reposts them at Reddit. Someone should report that behaviour at http://www.reddit.com/r/reportthespammers http://www.reddit.com/r/reportthespammers
- MattBearman 14y agoIt would seem David Bowie knew about these way before the rest of the world
- ktizo 14y agoDavid Bowie has built a fortress of solitude out of these at the Martian South Pole.
- thebigshane 14y agocontext: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Ziggy_Stardust_and_the_Spiders_from_Mars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Ziggy_Sta...
- debacle 14y agoA good image of the formations is on Wikipedia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/PIA11858_Starburst_Spider.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/PIA11858_...
- DougWebb 14y agoThat looks so much like mold.
- jlgreco 14y agoIt really does. However, one should keep in mind that humans have overzealous pattern-matching engines. We are really good at erroneously seeing things that we recognize.
- betterth 14y agoAnd when it comes to Martian geography, we are hopelessly bad at judging scale. It's very easy to be several orders of magnitude off without a guide or legend.
- jlgreco 14y agoTrue. While there are examples of life getting this large or larger on Earth (blooms, clonal colonies, etc), this seems unexpectedly large for a planet that seems otherwise lifeless.
- rapind 14y agoSo you're saying it is a Chow Chow looking down on us.
- RickHull 14y agoGoogle Mars, the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now.
- JonnieCache 14y agoCorrection: humans are overzealous pattern-matching engines.
- mhp 14y agoPardon my idiotic question, but why don't they just drive over there and check them out? Or are they just in a totally different place than the rover (like asking why someone in North America can't just hop over and check out Uluru)?
- woodchuck64 14y agoIt's weird, like the article was written in 2006 when they first proposed CO2 geysers. According to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_geyser http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martian_geyser this only occurs in the south polar region and Curiosity is near the equator. (Gale Crater: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolis_quadrangle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolis_quadrangle)
- shmageggy 14y agoApparently there are two active rovers on Mars right now [1], both of which have an average speed of about 0.02mph [2,3]. I haven't checked out the geography of the situation but it's not looking promising. 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_%28space_exploration%29#Active_rover_missions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_%28space_exploration%29#A... 2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_rover#Design_and_construction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_rover#Design_and_co... 3. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_rover#Specifications http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_rover#Specifications
- lisper 14y agoThat is not an idiotic question at all, it's a very good question. The reason is that (as you surmised) the rovers are very far away. Which begs the obvious question: why didn't they land a rover closer? That's a much harder question to answer. Landing site selection is a complex and somewhat political process. But there have been two polar missions, one successful, one not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Polar_Lander http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Polar_Lander http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(spacecraft) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_(spacecraft)
- InclinedPlane 14y agoMars is an entire world, it's a big place, we only have two rovers on the planet and they can travel at perhaps 10 km per year.
- melvinmt 14y agoIt feels weird to realize that according to Mars, we're the aliens invading the planet. Makes me wonder about all the extraterrestrial "rovers" on our planet.
- systematical 14y agoCrazy, looks like vegetation from 200 miles up but if the theory regarding CO2 is correct that is pretty crazy!
- JabavuAdams 14y agoWTF. How have I not heard about this, until now?