3 ms·

The problem is , there are very few Europeans or EUans. There are French and Germans and Spanish etc; they all want their country first and sure open markets bu

The problem is , there are very few Europeans or EUans. There are French and Germans and Spanish etc; they all want their country first and sure open markets but their country first. That is how they vote (certainly these days). Most people do not feel EU unfortunately. Language is one thing: it is getting better but having language not unified (English, Spanish, Mandarin; pick one) is a massive and real issue keeping people's minds and efforts local instead of, at least EU wide. It is slowly getting better but the EU should made easier accessible and far higher funds for pan EU projects. Currently it is a serious pain to get access to EU funds and many just get eaten by the few massive consultancy corps who have dedicated teams going for any funding and tender in any locality and language.

lpcvoid 11mo ago
Well written. I hope one day the united states of europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests.
- systemtest 11mo ago
  As a EU citizen that moved to a different EU country: Yes please! I constantly need a VPN as some services from my old country are geo-blocked. And when I forget to disable the VPN to my old country I can't visit certain sites from my current country. I need two phone numbers as some services require a phone number from the country they operate out of. I'm talking banking, classifieds, insurance, municipal. I can't use certain apps from my current country because I have to switch my account country but that disables apps from my old country. And the best part, I can't vote for the national elections in my current country. Only for those in my old country. And it will be like that for the rest of my life. An example: I had to enable VPN to see the election results of my old country, the one I am eligible to vote in. Please unify the EU so I don't have to deal with all of this.
  - econ 11mo ago
    Having people vote who don't live in the country has always struck me as weird. If you are some place else for say a year or even 10 years it seems a reasonable topic for debate but longer?? Never pay taxes either???
    - machomaster 11mo ago
      Often the rule is that one gets the vote in local elections after living for some time, but only citizens can vote in national elections (Parlament, President). This makes sense. If you want to fully participate in a society, you should integrate and become a citizen.
      - systemtest 11mo ago
        I personally believe that voting should be based on residency, not citizenship. If you live in the country you can vote. If you don’t live in the country you can’t vote. Simple. No taxation without representation.
        gverrilla 11mo ago
        Vulnerable.
        econ 11mo ago
        Representation without taxation seems even more offensive. But the real joke has to be to vote for laws for others (not you) to be subjected to.
        machomaster 11mo ago
        Even the USA has no problem taxing without representation. Representation without obligation (e.g. to be drafted) is even wilder.
    - systemtest 11mo ago
      Third generation Turkish immigrants vote for the Turkish elections despite never having set foot in Turkey because of the military draft. Goes to show that voting based on a passport is silly.
  - machomaster 11mo ago
    Why should countries allow foreign influence - the voting in the most important elections in the country, by foreign citizens who didn't integrate enough to even get their citizenship? Participating in local elections is often allowed.
    - systemtest 11mo ago
      In the case of these two countries dual citizenship is not allowed. So for the rest of my life I will not be able to vote here. This isn’t about “not integrating enough”. If someone has been living and working in a country for a long time that should be enough to let them vote in national elections, regardless of what citizenship they have.
      - bandofthehawk 11mo ago
        Can you give up citizenship of the old country? Not being willing to give up your old citizenship could be one example of "not integrating enough".
        deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
      - machomaster 11mo ago
        Personally I don't think Not willing to change your citizenship is a sign of not integrating fully, in not being completely loyal to the country and to its citizens. Imagine that both countries start a war between each other - who are you going to support? Whoever you choose does not matter, the fact remains that you would have to choose, legally speaking. Why should your current living country give the strongest possible leverage to an untegrated potential agent/supporter of the foreign country? Highest privileges should be given to people who decided to be fully in, in both good and bad. You can't be allowed to only cherrypick the good stuff: "I want to vote, but I don't want to be drafted to be killed in a war".
        deleted 11mo ago
- rdm_blackhole 11mo ago
  > Well written. I hope one day the united states of Europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests. And I personally hope it won't. Seeing how things are going, I have no interest for my country to become a small province of the EU to be managed by some bureaucrats in Brussels who have never set foot in it. Sharing intel and and resources why not? Becoming a vassal state of an EU federation no thanks.
  - lpcvoid 11mo ago
    The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes. I'd rather that the big fish be the EU than Russia, even if it means giving up some national rights.
    - rdm_blackhole 11mo ago
      > The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes That has always been the case. I don't see how that would justify giving up our independence to become a province of a super state. Secondly, using Russia a bogeyman to justify giving up our national rights is not a really convincing argument. Russia hasn't been able to conquer a third of Ukraine in the last 3 years and it's economy is in shambles, yet we are supposed to believe that only a European super state can save us from it? That makes no sense. But each to their own, those who want to give up their national rights, identities and shared cultural heritage should go ahead and integrate this super state and those who do not should be able to stay out of it. I guess fundamentally we have a different view of what Europe should be.

lpcvoid 11mo ago

Well written. I hope one day the united states of europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests.

systemtest 11mo ago
As a EU citizen that moved to a different EU country: Yes please! I constantly need a VPN as some services from my old country are geo-blocked. And when I forget to disable the VPN to my old country I can't visit certain sites from my current country. I need two phone numbers as some services require a phone number from the country they operate out of. I'm talking banking, classifieds, insurance, municipal. I can't use certain apps from my current country because I have to switch my account country but that disables apps from my old country. And the best part, I can't vote for the national elections in my current country. Only for those in my old country. And it will be like that for the rest of my life. An example: I had to enable VPN to see the election results of my old country, the one I am eligible to vote in. Please unify the EU so I don't have to deal with all of this.
- econ 11mo ago
  Having people vote who don't live in the country has always struck me as weird. If you are some place else for say a year or even 10 years it seems a reasonable topic for debate but longer?? Never pay taxes either???
  - machomaster 11mo ago
    Often the rule is that one gets the vote in local elections after living for some time, but only citizens can vote in national elections (Parlament, President). This makes sense. If you want to fully participate in a society, you should integrate and become a citizen.
    - systemtest 11mo ago
      I personally believe that voting should be based on residency, not citizenship. If you live in the country you can vote. If you don’t live in the country you can’t vote. Simple. No taxation without representation.
      - gverrilla 11mo ago
        Vulnerable.
      - econ 11mo ago
        Representation without taxation seems even more offensive. But the real joke has to be to vote for laws for others (not you) to be subjected to.
      - machomaster 11mo ago
        Even the USA has no problem taxing without representation. Representation without obligation (e.g. to be drafted) is even wilder.
  - systemtest 11mo ago
    Third generation Turkish immigrants vote for the Turkish elections despite never having set foot in Turkey because of the military draft. Goes to show that voting based on a passport is silly.
- machomaster 11mo ago
  Why should countries allow foreign influence - the voting in the most important elections in the country, by foreign citizens who didn't integrate enough to even get their citizenship? Participating in local elections is often allowed.
  - systemtest 11mo ago
    In the case of these two countries dual citizenship is not allowed. So for the rest of my life I will not be able to vote here. This isn’t about “not integrating enough”. If someone has been living and working in a country for a long time that should be enough to let them vote in national elections, regardless of what citizenship they have.
    - bandofthehawk 11mo ago
      Can you give up citizenship of the old country? Not being willing to give up your old citizenship could be one example of "not integrating enough".
      - deleted 11mo ago
        [deleted]
    - machomaster 11mo ago
      Personally I don't think Not willing to change your citizenship is a sign of not integrating fully, in not being completely loyal to the country and to its citizens. Imagine that both countries start a war between each other - who are you going to support? Whoever you choose does not matter, the fact remains that you would have to choose, legally speaking. Why should your current living country give the strongest possible leverage to an untegrated potential agent/supporter of the foreign country? Highest privileges should be given to people who decided to be fully in, in both good and bad. You can't be allowed to only cherrypick the good stuff: "I want to vote, but I don't want to be drafted to be killed in a war".
      - deleted 11mo ago
rdm_blackhole 11mo ago
> Well written. I hope one day the united states of Europe is a real political entity, burying the stupidity that is fragmented national interests. And I personally hope it won't. Seeing how things are going, I have no interest for my country to become a small province of the EU to be managed by some bureaucrats in Brussels who have never set foot in it. Sharing intel and and resources why not? Becoming a vassal state of an EU federation no thanks.
- lpcvoid 11mo ago
  The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes. I'd rather that the big fish be the EU than Russia, even if it means giving up some national rights.
  - rdm_blackhole 11mo ago
    > The world is going back to zones of influence, and little fish will be eaten by big fishes That has always been the case. I don't see how that would justify giving up our independence to become a province of a super state. Secondly, using Russia a bogeyman to justify giving up our national rights is not a really convincing argument. Russia hasn't been able to conquer a third of Ukraine in the last 3 years and it's economy is in shambles, yet we are supposed to believe that only a European super state can save us from it? That makes no sense. But each to their own, those who want to give up their national rights, identities and shared cultural heritage should go ahead and integrate this super state and those who do not should be able to stay out of it. I guess fundamentally we have a different view of what Europe should be.