5 ms·

why are specifically the Danish so obsessed with pushing this through? it always seems to come back to them

by permo-w 11mo ago

epolanski 11mo ago
Lobbying. EU delegates and council members have to report their meetings with lobbyists. Palantir and Thorn lobbyists (just the most famous ones, but you can add another few dozens security and data companies) are recorded meeting many times with countless of them, including Ursula von der Leyen. It's really as simple as that, sales pitches convincing them of all the benefits of having more intelligence "to catch criminals (wink)".
- sph 11mo ago
  > Palantir and Thorn lobbyists So, US interests? Which means the NSA?
  - epolanski 11mo ago
    I don't want to fall in a conspiracy but to me it seems there's an entire sector interested into relaxing E2E cryptography and data access. Even if the NSA was not involved the same data and security companies would have the same incentives imho.
  - GuB-42 11mo ago
    No need to look that far. Palantir sells software for analyzing data, like Excel but on a large scale. If "Chat Control" passes, they will need software to analyze the data they collect, which is exactly what Palantir sells. It is just business. I don't know about Thorn but it looks like the same: they sell software that may be of use for implementing "Chat Control".
    - spencerflem 11mo ago
      Thiel also has a religious angle, where he thinks himself a god and imagines a perfect society where every human is watched at all times
      - epolanski 11mo ago
        Will that constant monitoring include him? Because these billionaires get ultra touchy even if you track their private jets.
    - flawn 11mo ago
      "It is a just a business" is crazy to say if your founder was Peter Thiel and you ostensibly merged already halfway with the operating goverment (US, DoD)
    - 4gotunameagain 11mo ago
      I wish I were religious so I could believe that there is a special place in hell for those who do such societal damage for profit. But it don't look like it.
- rsolva 11mo ago
  After reflecting on this a bit earlier this year, I came to the same conclusion; Palantir and maybe other like minded lobbying clueless politicians. It is a considerable weakness in the way laws are formed and voted on.
Macha 11mo ago
Partly it's because the Danish have the rotating EU presidency at the moment so they have the job of pushing things forward (which also means receiving the most lobbying). In the previous wave earlier in the year, it was the Polish for the same reason. Partly it's they don't have the same pro-privacy culture that say Germany and many of the eastern european countries have. People also think the current Danish PM was also offended by a former prominent Danish politician and cabinet minister who was arrested for CSAM possession.
- permo-w 11mo ago
  I wonder how aware they are of the damage to the EU's reputation that they're continually creating by repeatedly bringing this back I think this theme of the EU, this lack of taboo against continually bringing unwanted laws until they pass by fatigue, it may well be the death of the institution as a whole. every time they try, every time people hear about it, more and more think worse of the EU, and unlike most western governments, the existence and function of the EU is actually severely vulnerable to what people think of it. no other major government takes as much reputational damage from laws that don't even pass, and the existence of no other major government is as vulnerable to reputational damage as the EU is right now. all it takes is another 1 or 2 major exits and the whole thing will slowly collapse, which is insanely sad
  - Macha 11mo ago
    The UK government laundering unpopular regulations through the EU and then blaming the EU for them even when the UK had proposed and often championed then was definitely a factor in Brexit passing. Somewhat relevantly, the UK already has their own version of this legislation in the Online Safety Act which lead to a bunch of small-medium UK community sites closing and the likes of Imgur, pixiv and 4chan blocking the UK.
    - liminvorous 11mo ago
      I believe 4chan is taking ofcom to court for trying to restrict their first amendment rights rather than blocking the UK, at least I'm still able to access it without a vpn.
arlort 11mo ago
The council of the EU operates on a rotating chair model (which gets called Presidency, sometimes Presidency of the EU) It's currently held by Denmark so it's the Danish delegation that's mostly doing the brokering etc for this semester
sillyfluke 11mo ago
I guess it never hurts to try and find alternate ways of placating the US in order to make them get over their Greenland obession.
- concinds 11mo ago
  The US pressured the UK to withdrawn encryption backdoors.
- petcat 11mo ago
  I don't care about Greenland one way or another, but I find it funny that the Europeans are so visibly upset about this when the Danish took the territory without permission themselves and are now crying that an even bigger thief might want to come take it from them.
  - scotty79 11mo ago
    Time is a factor. Taking land is what was done in the past. US wanting to do it now is as if Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA. It's a touchy subject and I think most of US wouldn't be exactly on board with this idea. Especially since putin shows us exactly what happens if you try.
    - petcat 11mo ago
      > Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA It's a bad example because the power balance doesn't make sense. I think you will have a hard time coming up with any example where USA would be on the receiving end of something like this.
      - permo-w 11mo ago
        the power balance isn't relevant. the original commenter said that they find it funny that Europeans get upset about Trump pretending he'd take Greenland. honestly the comment just seems like deliberately triggering 4chan-esque fare with little to no value to it. the power balance is completely irrelevant. it's one territory not happy with another power coveting its territory. how bizarre and unexpected
ggm 11mo ago
I was told the proposal the Danes carried forward actually had its roots from Sweden.
- latexr 11mo ago
  Every Chat Control proposal has its roots in Sweden. It originated with Ylva Johansson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_to_Prevent_and_Combat_Child_Sexual_Abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_to_Prevent_and_Comb... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ylva_Johansson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ylva_Johansson
  - permo-w 11mo ago
    this is an assuaging read. the German government decided it was illegal. reading this featured article, they don't appear to have changed their minds, plus another couple of countries, too. so what are we worried about?
    - rdm_blackhole 11mo ago
      The problem is that it doesnt matter if Germany is against it. If this gets approved in the EU parliament, the countries will have no choice but to agree to it. That is how the EU works. The time to disagree has come and gone basically.
      - permo-w 11mo ago
        EU laws require unanimity. if Germany, i.e. by far the most powerful member, doesn't want it and sees it as illegal, it's not going to happen, is it?
budududuroiu 11mo ago
My conspiracy theory is because they’d probably give a lot of contracts to Palantir (see the UK giving NHS to Palantir on a silver platter), and the US basically threatening to annex Greenland recently

why are specifically the Danish so obsessed with pushing this through? it always seems to come back to them

by permo-w 11mo ago

why are specifically the Danish so obsessed with pushing this through? it always seems to come back to them

Lobbying. EU delegates and council members have to report their meetings with lobbyists. Palantir and Thorn lobbyists (just the most famous ones, but you can add another few dozens security and data companies) are recorded meeting many times with countless of them, including Ursula von der Leyen. It's really as simple as that, sales pitches convincing them of all the benefits of having more intelligence "to catch criminals (wink)".

sph 11mo ago
> Palantir and Thorn lobbyists So, US interests? Which means the NSA?
- epolanski 11mo ago
  I don't want to fall in a conspiracy but to me it seems there's an entire sector interested into relaxing E2E cryptography and data access. Even if the NSA was not involved the same data and security companies would have the same incentives imho.
- GuB-42 11mo ago
  No need to look that far. Palantir sells software for analyzing data, like Excel but on a large scale. If "Chat Control" passes, they will need software to analyze the data they collect, which is exactly what Palantir sells. It is just business. I don't know about Thorn but it looks like the same: they sell software that may be of use for implementing "Chat Control".
  - spencerflem 11mo ago
    Thiel also has a religious angle, where he thinks himself a god and imagines a perfect society where every human is watched at all times
    - epolanski 11mo ago
      Will that constant monitoring include him? Because these billionaires get ultra touchy even if you track their private jets.
  - flawn 11mo ago
    "It is a just a business" is crazy to say if your founder was Peter Thiel and you ostensibly merged already halfway with the operating goverment (US, DoD)
  - 4gotunameagain 11mo ago
    I wish I were religious so I could believe that there is a special place in hell for those who do such societal damage for profit. But it don't look like it.
rsolva 11mo ago
After reflecting on this a bit earlier this year, I came to the same conclusion; Palantir and maybe other like minded lobbying clueless politicians. It is a considerable weakness in the way laws are formed and voted on.

Macha 11mo ago

Partly it's because the Danish have the rotating EU presidency at the moment so they have the job of pushing things forward (which also means receiving the most lobbying). In the previous wave earlier in the year, it was the Polish for the same reason. Partly it's they don't have the same pro-privacy culture that say Germany and many of the eastern european countries have. People also think the current Danish PM was also offended by a former prominent Danish politician and cabinet minister who was arrested for CSAM possession.

permo-w 11mo ago
I wonder how aware they are of the damage to the EU's reputation that they're continually creating by repeatedly bringing this back I think this theme of the EU, this lack of taboo against continually bringing unwanted laws until they pass by fatigue, it may well be the death of the institution as a whole. every time they try, every time people hear about it, more and more think worse of the EU, and unlike most western governments, the existence and function of the EU is actually severely vulnerable to what people think of it. no other major government takes as much reputational damage from laws that don't even pass, and the existence of no other major government is as vulnerable to reputational damage as the EU is right now. all it takes is another 1 or 2 major exits and the whole thing will slowly collapse, which is insanely sad
- Macha 11mo ago
  The UK government laundering unpopular regulations through the EU and then blaming the EU for them even when the UK had proposed and often championed then was definitely a factor in Brexit passing. Somewhat relevantly, the UK already has their own version of this legislation in the Online Safety Act which lead to a bunch of small-medium UK community sites closing and the likes of Imgur, pixiv and 4chan blocking the UK.
  - liminvorous 11mo ago
    I believe 4chan is taking ofcom to court for trying to restrict their first amendment rights rather than blocking the UK, at least I'm still able to access it without a vpn.

arlort 11mo ago

The council of the EU operates on a rotating chair model (which gets called Presidency, sometimes Presidency of the EU) It's currently held by Denmark so it's the Danish delegation that's mostly doing the brokering etc for this semester

sillyfluke 11mo ago

I guess it never hurts to try and find alternate ways of placating the US in order to make them get over their Greenland obession.

concinds 11mo ago
The US pressured the UK to withdrawn encryption backdoors.
petcat 11mo ago
I don't care about Greenland one way or another, but I find it funny that the Europeans are so visibly upset about this when the Danish took the territory without permission themselves and are now crying that an even bigger thief might want to come take it from them.
- scotty79 11mo ago
  Time is a factor. Taking land is what was done in the past. US wanting to do it now is as if Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA. It's a touchy subject and I think most of US wouldn't be exactly on board with this idea. Especially since putin shows us exactly what happens if you try.
  - petcat 11mo ago
    > Mexico decided to revive slavery and threatend to capture Afroamericans in USA It's a bad example because the power balance doesn't make sense. I think you will have a hard time coming up with any example where USA would be on the receiving end of something like this.
    - permo-w 11mo ago
      the power balance isn't relevant. the original commenter said that they find it funny that Europeans get upset about Trump pretending he'd take Greenland. honestly the comment just seems like deliberately triggering 4chan-esque fare with little to no value to it. the power balance is completely irrelevant. it's one territory not happy with another power coveting its territory. how bizarre and unexpected

ggm 11mo ago

I was told the proposal the Danes carried forward actually had its roots from Sweden.

latexr 11mo ago
Every Chat Control proposal has its roots in Sweden. It originated with Ylva Johansson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_to_Prevent_and_Combat_Child_Sexual_Abuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_to_Prevent_and_Comb... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ylva_Johansson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ylva_Johansson
- permo-w 11mo ago
  this is an assuaging read. the German government decided it was illegal. reading this featured article, they don't appear to have changed their minds, plus another couple of countries, too. so what are we worried about?
  - rdm_blackhole 11mo ago
    The problem is that it doesnt matter if Germany is against it. If this gets approved in the EU parliament, the countries will have no choice but to agree to it. That is how the EU works. The time to disagree has come and gone basically.
    - permo-w 11mo ago
      EU laws require unanimity. if Germany, i.e. by far the most powerful member, doesn't want it and sees it as illegal, it's not going to happen, is it?

budududuroiu 11mo ago

My conspiracy theory is because they’d probably give a lot of contracts to Palantir (see the UK giving NHS to Palantir on a silver platter), and the US basically threatening to annex Greenland recently