5 ms·
GrapheneOS Moving Out of France
- andsoitis 11mo ago” In Canada and the US, refusing to provide a PIN/password is protected as part of the right to avoid incriminating yourself. In France, they've criminalized this part of the right to remain silent.”
- p0w3n3d 11mo agoDoes it mean they do not respect democratic values in France?
- immibis 11mo agoDepends, did the people vote for it?
- sebtron 11mo agoIf by "democratic values" you mean US and Canadian law, they don't.
- exe34 11mo agoCould you say a few words on what you think democracy is?
- p0w3n3d 11mo agodemocratic values maybe more, because that's what I said. I'd say that every person is equal in law, every one can defend themselves and is not punished for not incriminating themselves. You know, I live in Poland, where up to 1989 when you were captured by police (which was called militia back then) they would beat the shit out of you or nag your family unless you incriminate yourself. And these were not democratic values. Basically the ruling system was authoritarian at that time. And I can see some similarities here between Poland pre 1989 and France nowadays. -- EDIT -- Chat Control which was accepted by France is also really good connection to those times when your packages were being opened in the post office, if you were suspected by the one-party government. Also there was a time that all the phone calls were eavesdropped by security service.
- exe34 11mo agoI don't like chat control unless it opens up all government communications to the public at the same time - but to compare chat control with the secret police beating up your family seems a bit over the top.
- NitpickLawyer 11mo ago> refusing to provide a PIN/password is protected In theory. In practice there's a case where a defendant is being held in contempt (jailed) for years now, for refusing to provide her encryption passwords. At that point both the 5th and the idea of contempt are busted.
- andsoitis 11mo ago> In practice there's a case where a defendant is being held in contempt (jailed) for years now, for refusing to provide her encryption passwords. Link to story?
- happymellon 11mo agoThe only one I know of was this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629728 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629728 And he was freed after about 4 years. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-to-decrypt-hard-drives-is-free-after-four-years-in-jail/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-...
- piyuv 11mo ago> Prosecutors were able to gain access to the laptop, and police say forensic analysis showed Rawls downloading child pornography and saving it to the external hard drives.
- happymellon 11mo agoMy comment was more about this > In practice there's a case where a defendant is being held in contempt (jailed) for years now They are not still being held due to contempt, they were released. Now if he was convicted then thats different and the correct reason to be imprisoned. > she It was not a she. The ruling showed that you can only be held for 18 months in the US for refusal. They would need to actually charge them with a crime if the government wanted more than that.
- r721 11mo agoPrevious discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46037573 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46037573 Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45999024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45999024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46035977 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46035977
- wartywhoa23 11mo agoWhen all the remaining freedom fighters will flee out of all the oppressive states into the last remaining citadel of human rights, which may well turn out to be some drifting icefield in Arctic, and the oppression finally catches them up there, is there any plan B for the humankind?
- NSUserDefaults 11mo agoSatellites?
- b112 11mo agoCan be jammed and/or destroyed.
- deleted 11mo ago[deleted]
- anonymousiam 11mo agoSatellite operators are still required to comply with the Federal Wiretap Act (and equivalent in every other country of the world). The result is a less-than-optimal network that requires routing communications through a ground station (where it can be intercepted) even when it's technically feasible (and optimal) to use point-to-point communications. The resulting technical solutions (at least) double the bandwidth and processing required by the network, and bandwidth/processing are critical resources for communications satellites. These requirements can make or break the economic feasibility of a proposed system.
- otikik 11mo agoThe One place that has not been corrupted by Capitalism… Space!
- fnands 11mo agoI can hear Tim Curry's delivery of that in my head. So good.
- leobg 11mo agoIf I read it correctly, they’re not physically “moving” out of France. They are merely switching servers away from OVH.
- rickdeckard 11mo agowhich is one of several server locations they operate on, including Germany and Switzerland
- letmetweakit 11mo ago"France isn't a safe country for open source privacy projects. They expect backdoors in encryption and for device access too. Secure devices and services are not going to be allowed. We don't feel safe using OVH for even a static website with servers in Canada/US via their Canada/US subsidiaries." Would surprise me if they weren't moving out of France entirely.
- throawayonthe 11mo agoseems as physical as anything, this includes OVH servers in france
- ThePowerOfFuet 11mo ago... to Canada. Out of the frying pan, into the fire?
- alkindiffie 11mo agoCanada does not restrict or ban encryption: https://www.gp-digital.org/world-map-of-encryption/ https://www.gp-digital.org/world-map-of-encryption/
- StrangeSound 11mo ago"We never demonized Europe and our server in France moved to Switzerland, not North America. Most of our servers with OVH were in Beauharnois, Canada. Multiple of those Canadian OVH servers are now retired and the remaining 5 are going to be moved elsewhere too." https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1994332742411022336#m https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1994332742411022336#m
- olalonde 11mo ago> France isn't a safe country for open source privacy projects. They expect backdoors in encryption and for device access too. Secure devices and services are not going to be allowed. If this is true, it's a bit concerning for Ledger users. One state-mandated firmware update away from losing all your crypto?
- beeflet 11mo agoHow would the government mandate a backdoor of such a hardware/software system without attracting eyeballs?
- grougnax 11mo agoThe government just doesn't care.
- beeflet 11mo agoIf there is a backdoor in an open-source system, and people know about it, then they will organize independently to patch it out. So it will be ineffective to the extent that the technology allows reprogrammability. The only way you can beat it, as a governement trying to insert a backdoor, is through use of tivoization or some other technology that clinches control during manufacturing or other centralization weak points around economies of scale that the re-programmers don't have.
- jack_tripper 11mo agoEasy. They'll just demand major tech companies implement in Europe exactly what they did to comply with China's government surveillance request. They already have the blueprint of the apparatus, they just need to throw a blue coat of paint and a circle of gold stars over it to legitimize it and make it less scary looking. And they don't give a damn about attracting eyeballs since the surveillance will be mandated by law and done legally by the book, and it will be done "for your own safety and protection against the boogieman", so that people will accept it.
- olalonde 11mo ago
- p0w3n3d 11mo agoSo France is basically using the latter method from https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/ but the violence is purely economic