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A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't wa

by pandaman 11mo ago

A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't want them there, you don't ask for a dollar a day or to clean up the dishes, do you? You ask them to leave and call police if they refuse. This is where detention comes into play: people who don't want to leave the country need to be detained before forcibly transported outside the country's border, maybe in the future, when we invent instant teleportation, we will be able to just send them home without detention but the current realities do not allow for that.

protocolture 11mo ago
>A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Right, but immigration detention isnt that. >Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't want them there, you don't ask for a dollar a day or to clean up the dishes, do you? You ask them to leave and call police if they refuse. The house analogy is really weird and does not at all fit the realities of a nation. >This is where detention comes into play: people who don't want to leave the country need to be detained before forcibly transported outside the country's border, maybe in the future, when we invent instant teleportation, we will be able to just send them home without detention but the current realities do not allow for that. They dont need to be detained. Theres no process that cant be completed before deportation without detention. It is arbitrary punishment. Your own tortured analogy of the house, does not detain prisoners in the basement while awaiting court in the I don't know Laundry to see if their marriage to someone in the master bedroom is valid. Theres no reason someone cant live working in the living room? (who comes up with these terrible seppoisms?) and sleeping in their room that they can somehow afford to pay for in your house somehow while the laundry judge rules on their case before taking them to the roof airport? Feeling a bit like the house thing is forced to come to some predetermined conclusion but its not as obvious as made out nor is it any good. Anyway to blow that whole thing open I looked at the silly seppo website and: "Most aliens ICE arrests are detained and eventually removed. In some cases, these people remain in ICE detention for months while they wait for a final decision from an immigration judge." https://www.ice.gov/self-deportation https://www.ice.gov/self-deportation Theres nothing wrong with: > Complete legal process while living in situ > If determination is, deportation, fine X and escort person to airport/border. You would probably spend less money giving people 2 further weeks to deal with their affairs beforehand but w/e not required. Detention, especially before trial, being a necessary component is a ghost that lives entirely in your head that you can evict at any time.
- pandaman 11mo ago
  It feels like you have some unique model of detention in your head (or mean something else than the common meaning of the word). The process is very simple - you are detained and then, when enough people are accumulated, they get loaded onto a bus/plane and removed from the country. Even if there was an abundance of buses and planes and every illegal alien would be loaded onto one immediately there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane. What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term. This does not happen in reality, detention is a necessary part of removing an alien who has no right to be in the country and not some kind of punishment, which you could serve and come out as a legal alien.
  - protocolture 11mo ago
    Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment. >there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane. Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Other than nothing at all. (The usual response from the border brainrot is that either they need to be prevented from escaping, which they could have done earlier instead of choosing to remain a part of society. Then when that ones knocked down its as a "Deterrent" which is where we wrap back around to this being a punishment) >What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term. No I have not made that mistake at all. >detention is a necessary part of removing an alien Nope. No reason for it at all. >which you could serve and come out as a legal alien. Never said that at all. Just that theres no reason for someone to go into arbitrary detention before attending court/airport/border when they pose no risk to society. To do otherwise is a punishment.
    - pandaman 11mo ago
      >Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment. It is not. There has to be a reason to believe the person is an illegal alien. In this article, for example, all detainees presented documentation of their illegal presence and identified themselves with photo ID. >Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Someone already broke the law and is in the country illegally. What are the reasons for them to listen and follow a court order? Also, the immigration being a civil matter, how do you even obtain such an order? Sue them and go through a trial? There are already laws that allow removal of these aliens so this looks just like some redittor's wish-list in lieu of knowing the law. >Nope. No reason for it at all. Yeah, it seems that you don't see the reason. Can't explain something to somebody who is unwilling to understand.

protocolture 11mo ago

>A rational relief for being in the country illegally is a removal of such an individual from the country. Right, but immigration detention isnt that. >Same as if somebody enters your house and you don't want them there, you don't ask for a dollar a day or to clean up the dishes, do you? You ask them to leave and call police if they refuse. The house analogy is really weird and does not at all fit the realities of a nation. >This is where detention comes into play: people who don't want to leave the country need to be detained before forcibly transported outside the country's border, maybe in the future, when we invent instant teleportation, we will be able to just send them home without detention but the current realities do not allow for that. They dont need to be detained. Theres no process that cant be completed before deportation without detention. It is arbitrary punishment. Your own tortured analogy of the house, does not detain prisoners in the basement while awaiting court in the I don't know Laundry to see if their marriage to someone in the master bedroom is valid. Theres no reason someone cant live working in the living room? (who comes up with these terrible seppoisms?) and sleeping in their room that they can somehow afford to pay for in your house somehow while the laundry judge rules on their case before taking them to the roof airport? Feeling a bit like the house thing is forced to come to some predetermined conclusion but its not as obvious as made out nor is it any good. Anyway to blow that whole thing open I looked at the silly seppo website and: "Most aliens ICE arrests are detained and eventually removed. In some cases, these people remain in ICE detention for months while they wait for a final decision from an immigration judge." https://www.ice.gov/self-deportation https://www.ice.gov/self-deportation Theres nothing wrong with: > Complete legal process while living in situ > If determination is, deportation, fine X and escort person to airport/border. You would probably spend less money giving people 2 further weeks to deal with their affairs beforehand but w/e not required. Detention, especially before trial, being a necessary component is a ghost that lives entirely in your head that you can evict at any time.

pandaman 11mo ago
It feels like you have some unique model of detention in your head (or mean something else than the common meaning of the word). The process is very simple - you are detained and then, when enough people are accumulated, they get loaded onto a bus/plane and removed from the country. Even if there was an abundance of buses and planes and every illegal alien would be loaded onto one immediately there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane. What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term. This does not happen in reality, detention is a necessary part of removing an alien who has no right to be in the country and not some kind of punishment, which you could serve and come out as a legal alien.
- protocolture 11mo ago
  Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment. >there would be still a detention to move him or her from the place where they were found to the bus or plane. Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Other than nothing at all. (The usual response from the border brainrot is that either they need to be prevented from escaping, which they could have done earlier instead of choosing to remain a part of society. Then when that ones knocked down its as a "Deterrent" which is where we wrap back around to this being a punishment) >What you wrote only makes a faint sense in assumption that detention is given as a punishment for immigration violations as same as prison term. No I have not made that mistake at all. >detention is a necessary part of removing an alien Nope. No reason for it at all. >which you could serve and come out as a legal alien. Never said that at all. Just that theres no reason for someone to go into arbitrary detention before attending court/airport/border when they pose no risk to society. To do otherwise is a punishment.
  - pandaman 11mo ago
    >Detention is literally being used arbitrarily, before the decision is made to even determine the person is an alien. If something is uneccesary its usually being used as punishment. It is not. There has to be a reason to believe the person is an illegal alien. In this article, for example, all detainees presented documentation of their illegal presence and identified themselves with photo ID. >Whats wrong with a court order and a plane ticket? Someone already broke the law and is in the country illegally. What are the reasons for them to listen and follow a court order? Also, the immigration being a civil matter, how do you even obtain such an order? Sue them and go through a trial? There are already laws that allow removal of these aliens so this looks just like some redittor's wish-list in lieu of knowing the law. >Nope. No reason for it at all. Yeah, it seems that you don't see the reason. Can't explain something to somebody who is unwilling to understand.