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I'm very confused by your comment, but appreciate that you have precisely made my point. There are no "bets" with regard to these topics. How do you think a com

I'm very confused by your comment, but appreciate that you have precisely made my point. There are no "bets" with regard to these topics. How do you think a computer works? Do you seriously believe LLMs somehow escape the limitations of the machines they run on?

ACCount37 11mo ago
And what are the limitations of the machines they run on? We're yet to find any process at all that can't be computed with a Turing machine. Why do you expect that "intelligence" is a sudden outlier? Do you have an actual reason to expect that?
- RandomLensman 11mo ago
  Is everything really just computation? Gravity is (or can be) the result of a Turing machine churning away somewhere?
  - ACCount37 11mo ago
    It might be. https://xkcd.com/505/ https://xkcd.com/505/
- keernan 11mo ago
  >We're yet to find any process at all that can't be computed with a Turing machine. Life. Consciousness. A soul. Imagination. Reflection. Emotions.
  - ACCount37 11mo ago
    Again: why can't any of that run on a sufficiently capable computer? I can't help but perceive this as pseudo-profound bullshit. "Real soul and real imagination cannot run on a computer" is a canned "profound" statement with no substance to it whatsoever. If a hunk of wet meat the size of a melon can do it, then why not a server rack full of nanofabricated silicon?
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - keernan 11mo ago
      For the same reason you don't sit and talk with rocks. Nobody understands how it is that wet meat can do these things but rocks cannot. And a computer is a rock. As such, we have no idea whether all the hunks of wet meat in the world can figure out how to transform rocks into wet meat.
      - ACCount37 11mo ago
        You don't? Modern computers can understand natural language, and can reply in natural language. This isn't even particularly new, we've had voice assistants for over a decade. LLMs are just far better at it. Again: I see no reason why silicon plates can't do the same exact things a mush of wet meat does. And recent advances in AI sure suggest that they can.
hackinthebochs 11mo ago
What do you think these in principle limitations are that preclude a computer running the right program from reaching general intelligence?

ACCount37 11mo ago

And what are the limitations of the machines they run on? We're yet to find any process at all that can't be computed with a Turing machine. Why do you expect that "intelligence" is a sudden outlier? Do you have an actual reason to expect that?

RandomLensman 11mo ago
Is everything really just computation? Gravity is (or can be) the result of a Turing machine churning away somewhere?
- ACCount37 11mo ago
  It might be. https://xkcd.com/505/ https://xkcd.com/505/
keernan 11mo ago
>We're yet to find any process at all that can't be computed with a Turing machine. Life. Consciousness. A soul. Imagination. Reflection. Emotions.
- ACCount37 11mo ago
  Again: why can't any of that run on a sufficiently capable computer? I can't help but perceive this as pseudo-profound bullshit. "Real soul and real imagination cannot run on a computer" is a canned "profound" statement with no substance to it whatsoever. If a hunk of wet meat the size of a melon can do it, then why not a server rack full of nanofabricated silicon?
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - keernan 11mo ago
    For the same reason you don't sit and talk with rocks. Nobody understands how it is that wet meat can do these things but rocks cannot. And a computer is a rock. As such, we have no idea whether all the hunks of wet meat in the world can figure out how to transform rocks into wet meat.
    - ACCount37 11mo ago
      You don't? Modern computers can understand natural language, and can reply in natural language. This isn't even particularly new, we've had voice assistants for over a decade. LLMs are just far better at it. Again: I see no reason why silicon plates can't do the same exact things a mush of wet meat does. And recent advances in AI sure suggest that they can.

hackinthebochs 11mo ago

What do you think these in principle limitations are that preclude a computer running the right program from reaching general intelligence?