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I don't think there's any redefinition here, and it's exactly this dichotomy that makes this a big issue. Vulnerability is indeed not "a good thing", but the is
by falcor84 11mo ago
I don't think there's any redefinition here, and it's exactly this dichotomy that makes this a big issue. Vulnerability is indeed not "a good thing", but the issue is that the struggle to constantly keep yourself invulnerable at all times is a "worse thing", leading to many stress-related issues (amongst other problems). So the modern psychological advice, as I understand it, is to find particular people, spaces and opportunities where we can let our guard down, even at the risk of being open to attack, because the alternative is worse.
There's a stoic quote I love:
> our ideal wise man feels his troubles, but overcomes them
- Seneca, Moral letters to Lucilius/Letter 9
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Letter_9 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_letters_to_Lucilius/Let...
The way I see it, if you never let yourself be vulnerable, you can never fully feel your troubles, and you cannot fully overcome them.
- mewpmewp2 11mo agoI guess the question is -> why do we need that guard in the first place? Is this about other people being immature or looking to abuse us? Is this something that generally goes beyond school?
- ben_w 11mo ago> Is this about other people being immature or looking to abuse us? Is this something that generally goes beyond school? Yes to both. Psychopaths do to everyone what everyone does to out-groups, and we're all someone else's out-group.
- akimbostrawman 11mo agoYou really don't need to reach that far. As a man if you are too often vulnerable, too much, for the wrong reasons or at the wrong time you will loose the respect of your partner and soon after there love.
- squigz 11mo agoNot everyone's partner is that shallow.
- akimbostrawman 11mo agoExceptions don't invalidate the rule. Everybody thinks there partner isn't right until they are.
- squigz 11mo agoYour experiences don't validate the rule, either.
- akimbostrawman 11mo agoRight I forgot we are on HN where we even need a scientific paper on "do women like weak vulnerable or strong confident men?" because nobody ever goes outside.
- squigz 11mo agoNot really, it's just that most of us are adults who have experiences with healthy adult relationships. "Is my partner going to leave me if I display emotional vulnerability" is not really a concern in healthy, adult relationships.
- akimbostrawman 11mo agoAn actual adult realizes the real world differences between "should not" and "will not".
- squigz 11mo agoI'm not sure what this is trying to say? Can you elaborate please?
- mewpmewp2 11mo agoI think some concrete examples would be great. I think we need some examples of vulnerability too. Is vulnerability just about showing your actual emotional state? E.g. if you are depressed, anxious or nervous?
- Joeboy 11mo ago> Is this something that generally goes beyond school? The things that make you vulnerable change depending on what year and situation you're in. I can very much get behind the idea that you should consider whether your legacy sense of what makes you vulnerable is relevant to your current circumstances. I'm not so much behind the "freely dispense the rope people will use to hang you" version.
- mewpmewp2 11mo agoThere's a lot of abstraction in this thread, but I would like to hear specifics. What are the exact vulnerabilities that we are talking about? From my side I guess I can say I frequently feel like impostor type of things or that I'm not doing enough. I won't mention that at work, but I definitely share those feelings to my partner. I would hate not being able to share something like that to my partner for instance. I wonder what others are talking about?
- Joeboy 11mo agoWhen I was at school (and in the 20th century generally) admitting to anything outside traditional masculinity / heterosexuality made you vulnerable to physical / verbal attack. Which remains the case for a lot of people in the 21st century. If they want to be loud and proud then good for them, but I can understand it if they prefer to keep it quiet. Whereas, at least around me, now, I think you can come out as gay without too much concern for your physical safety. Conversely, at my school you could be as overtly homophobic as you wanted with no consequences, whereas now you should probably be a lot more cautious if you harbour homophobic sentiments. Talking about partners in particular, I've had partners I felt fairly safe sharing anything (most things anyway) with, and I've also had partners who would mine our conversations for any kind of viable ammunition. Which led to me being a bit more careful what I said. We can perhaps agree the first kind of relationship is better.
- mewpmewp2 11mo agoYeah, I think the 2nd type of relationship is much worse than no relationship, I'd say the problem there wouldn't be with someone being vulnerable, it's the problem with the relationship... Yeah, during school it's difficult since you are forced together with potentially toxic people. As an adult you can choose at least in personal life and to an extent workplace, although sometimes workplace can also be difficult to get right. I'd 100% rather be alone than around people who might judge or use in someway against me anything about me. It would feel internally disgusting for me to think that someone might be trying to get at my expense and that I'm not around people who are there to try and build each other. What a waste of time.