6 ms·

> unlimited storage Surely it's not actually unlimited. I wish such claims wouldn't be as common in the industry.

by poly2it 10mo ago

walski 10mo ago
Does it really matter if in real-world-use 99% of the users never hit any limit? And I cannot blame anyone to use "unlimited" instead of "fair use, with reasonably large limits so that you will (probably) never see any restrictions in your use of the product"
- okhobb 10mo ago
  HN users want to know if you're allowed to host the whole Internet on it.
  - reddalo 10mo ago
    Creative people could start encoding terabytes of movies inside of Penpot documents.
  - tonyhart7 10mo ago
    This is why we can't have nice things. People see 'unlimited' and will do everything in their power to 'fact-check' it, forcing the producer to place a 'hard cap' and making everyone's life worse.
    - wltr 10mo ago
      Don’t use the unlimited lie then, I assume.
      - tonyhart7 10mo ago
        It's not a lie if no one is abusing it. Travel to high trust societies if you don't get what I mean. Things would be so much easier if we could expect human decency and ethics, even if there is no law against it, because it goes against our values as humans.
        twelvedogs 10mo ago
        Someone will abuse it though, so why bother with the bullshit You don't build high trust societies with lies
        tonyhart7 10mo ago
        "You don't build high trust societies with lies" Yes because you build it with trust, I trust you to not ruin this things so everyone can enjoy it I can understand where you coming from because when I watch YT videos about people that exploit the loophole or game the system, people literally praise them for "beating the game" and this is happen mostly with US where everyone is materialistic but my counter argument is game theory, where everyone can cooperate for betterment of your environment
        threeducks 10mo ago
        > It's not a lie if no one is abusing it. It absolutely is a lie, but you might live in a society where constant lying has been normalized. Personally, I believe that society would be better off if companies were held to the letter of their words.
        tonyhart7 10mo ago
        Because that’s not a lie; under special circumstances, it can be true. For example, consider a restaurant that offers free rice refills because Asian people love eating rice to fill up. An employee working overtime who really needs it can get as many refills as they want. Of course, this system falls apart if everyone starts doing it, as the restaurant would need to bake that cost into the price to sustain the business. But my point is: you can have nice things in society, or you can have a dystopia where people take advantage of each other at every single opportunity. The choice is yours.
        ipaddr 10mo ago
        A dystopia is where people lie about free rice bowls to get people in the door but can't deliver. That's not nice things its taking advantage of a lie and blaming people who take up the offer.
      - mnx 10mo ago
        "starbucks says there is no limit on how many napkins I can use but they got mad when I took the whole container, liars"
        threeducks 10mo ago
        It might have become socially acceptable to lie when everyone else is, but it is still a lie. Back in my days, you at least had to put an asterisk behind such outrageous claims.
        wltr 10mo ago
        Heck, adding a word like ‘almost’ would make it rather truth.
    - Aurornis 10mo ago
      Can confirm. Worked at a startup with some very generous (though not “unlimited”) limits designed to allow for bursts and spikes of usage. Some people took it upon themselves to try to abuse and saturate the limits to “prove” that we couldn’t handle it. We could actually handle it, but it wasn’t worth offering it to this small number of users who were trying to prove a point by abusing it to the max without an actual use case. They just wanted to show off on Reddit that the were making our servers suffer.
      - tonyhart7 10mo ago
        I still remember people abusing Claude Code, they even had a leaderboard for who spent the most tokens. Billions of tokens wasted for nothing
tossandthrow 10mo ago
It likely is as it is not general purpose storage. Even though your Linux iso's are called "images", they can not be added to a penpot design file - sorry to say.
- kuschku 10mo ago
  Can penpot import images? Given enough time, anything that can store PNG will become an automated backup backend
PaulRobinson 10mo ago
It's a little like "unlimited holidays". If you turn up on day 1 and then say "Right, I'm off on my unlimited holidays! See you never!" and disappeared, they would stop paying you. There is an implicit fair use clause in all unlimited offers - I know a guy who pushed back on "unlimited holidays" because he didn't want to get penalised in performance reviews and it turns out that in his UK-based org it was 29 days a year, or one day more than the legal statutory minimum. Firms like penpot are basically saying "look, if you pay us this much, we're not going to put hard quotas on you, just get on with it", but if you then try storing backups of annas archive on it, they are probably going to suggest that you are not operating within the spirit of the agreement, even if you're within the letter of it: fair use will apply. Some people like to know where they stand. They want hard quotas. So fine, ask them for hard quotas. Ask for the fair use clause and understand it. Most of us know what it means (it's a soft quota with fair use limitations), and are happy with not abusing the tier and having a bit more freedom, though.
- noduerme 10mo ago
  Hah. I'm a self employed freelancer, but a friend works for (MegaCorp Intl) and every time we go for beers he mentions that he has "Unlimited Paid Time Off". But whenever I ask if that means he could take a few months to hike the Andes with me, he says.... well, no, actually they'd fire him if he took too much time. How much is too much? I ask. Well basically anything that would make them notice his absence, apparently.
  - falcor84 10mo ago
    And there's a problem in the other direction too - I don't expect people who really can leave for a few months without their absence being noticable to have much job security.
    - noduerme 10mo ago
      This is a corporate culture thing. I can be in the middle of nowhere for months, and it makes no difference to my clients. No one even notices. I have a phone that always rings, and laptop. I don't have a corporate health plan or a 401k but I don't have to ask permission..
chrisbuc 10mo ago
Perhaps "uncapped" rather than "unlimited" would be a better term for us to start using
- BoredPositron 10mo ago
  I would say it's the opposite. If there is moral compass and we don't get high-up if someone tries to store their Linux isos on pen pot and gets a ban.

> unlimited storage Surely it's not actually unlimited. I wish such claims wouldn't be as common in the industry.

by poly2it 10mo ago

> unlimited storage Surely it's not actually unlimited. I wish such claims wouldn't be as common in the industry.

walski 10mo ago

Does it really matter if in real-world-use 99% of the users never hit any limit? And I cannot blame anyone to use "unlimited" instead of "fair use, with reasonably large limits so that you will (probably) never see any restrictions in your use of the product"

okhobb 10mo ago
HN users want to know if you're allowed to host the whole Internet on it.
- reddalo 10mo ago
  Creative people could start encoding terabytes of movies inside of Penpot documents.
- tonyhart7 10mo ago
  This is why we can't have nice things. People see 'unlimited' and will do everything in their power to 'fact-check' it, forcing the producer to place a 'hard cap' and making everyone's life worse.
  - wltr 10mo ago
    Don’t use the unlimited lie then, I assume.
    - tonyhart7 10mo ago
      It's not a lie if no one is abusing it. Travel to high trust societies if you don't get what I mean. Things would be so much easier if we could expect human decency and ethics, even if there is no law against it, because it goes against our values as humans.
      - twelvedogs 10mo ago
        Someone will abuse it though, so why bother with the bullshit You don't build high trust societies with lies
        tonyhart7 10mo ago
        "You don't build high trust societies with lies" Yes because you build it with trust, I trust you to not ruin this things so everyone can enjoy it I can understand where you coming from because when I watch YT videos about people that exploit the loophole or game the system, people literally praise them for "beating the game" and this is happen mostly with US where everyone is materialistic but my counter argument is game theory, where everyone can cooperate for betterment of your environment
      - threeducks 10mo ago
        > It's not a lie if no one is abusing it. It absolutely is a lie, but you might live in a society where constant lying has been normalized. Personally, I believe that society would be better off if companies were held to the letter of their words.
        tonyhart7 10mo ago
        Because that’s not a lie; under special circumstances, it can be true. For example, consider a restaurant that offers free rice refills because Asian people love eating rice to fill up. An employee working overtime who really needs it can get as many refills as they want. Of course, this system falls apart if everyone starts doing it, as the restaurant would need to bake that cost into the price to sustain the business. But my point is: you can have nice things in society, or you can have a dystopia where people take advantage of each other at every single opportunity. The choice is yours.
        ipaddr 10mo ago
        A dystopia is where people lie about free rice bowls to get people in the door but can't deliver. That's not nice things its taking advantage of a lie and blaming people who take up the offer.
    - mnx 10mo ago
      "starbucks says there is no limit on how many napkins I can use but they got mad when I took the whole container, liars"
      - threeducks 10mo ago
        It might have become socially acceptable to lie when everyone else is, but it is still a lie. Back in my days, you at least had to put an asterisk behind such outrageous claims.
        wltr 10mo ago
        Heck, adding a word like ‘almost’ would make it rather truth.
  - Aurornis 10mo ago
    Can confirm. Worked at a startup with some very generous (though not “unlimited”) limits designed to allow for bursts and spikes of usage. Some people took it upon themselves to try to abuse and saturate the limits to “prove” that we couldn’t handle it. We could actually handle it, but it wasn’t worth offering it to this small number of users who were trying to prove a point by abusing it to the max without an actual use case. They just wanted to show off on Reddit that the were making our servers suffer.
    - tonyhart7 10mo ago
      I still remember people abusing Claude Code, they even had a leaderboard for who spent the most tokens. Billions of tokens wasted for nothing

tossandthrow 10mo ago

It likely is as it is not general purpose storage. Even though your Linux iso's are called "images", they can not be added to a penpot design file - sorry to say.

kuschku 10mo ago
Can penpot import images? Given enough time, anything that can store PNG will become an automated backup backend

PaulRobinson 10mo ago

It's a little like "unlimited holidays". If you turn up on day 1 and then say "Right, I'm off on my unlimited holidays! See you never!" and disappeared, they would stop paying you. There is an implicit fair use clause in all unlimited offers - I know a guy who pushed back on "unlimited holidays" because he didn't want to get penalised in performance reviews and it turns out that in his UK-based org it was 29 days a year, or one day more than the legal statutory minimum. Firms like penpot are basically saying "look, if you pay us this much, we're not going to put hard quotas on you, just get on with it", but if you then try storing backups of annas archive on it, they are probably going to suggest that you are not operating within the spirit of the agreement, even if you're within the letter of it: fair use will apply. Some people like to know where they stand. They want hard quotas. So fine, ask them for hard quotas. Ask for the fair use clause and understand it. Most of us know what it means (it's a soft quota with fair use limitations), and are happy with not abusing the tier and having a bit more freedom, though.

noduerme 10mo ago
Hah. I'm a self employed freelancer, but a friend works for (MegaCorp Intl) and every time we go for beers he mentions that he has "Unlimited Paid Time Off". But whenever I ask if that means he could take a few months to hike the Andes with me, he says.... well, no, actually they'd fire him if he took too much time. How much is too much? I ask. Well basically anything that would make them notice his absence, apparently.
- falcor84 10mo ago
  And there's a problem in the other direction too - I don't expect people who really can leave for a few months without their absence being noticable to have much job security.
  - noduerme 10mo ago
    This is a corporate culture thing. I can be in the middle of nowhere for months, and it makes no difference to my clients. No one even notices. I have a phone that always rings, and laptop. I don't have a corporate health plan or a 401k but I don't have to ask permission..

chrisbuc 10mo ago

Perhaps "uncapped" rather than "unlimited" would be a better term for us to start using

BoredPositron 10mo ago
I would say it's the opposite. If there is moral compass and we don't get high-up if someone tries to store their Linux isos on pen pot and gets a ban.