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I just want out. I don't know how to put this but at the deepest level what's happening right now is making me sick. So many people below the poverty line barel

I just want out. I don't know how to put this but at the deepest level what's happening right now is making me sick. So many people below the poverty line barely making it by and then you have this stuff and Wallstreet Bets. Michael Saylor tops them all. Decadent and depraved. S&P at all time records and SNAP benefits not being renewed. I hate it here.

Computer0 11mo ago
The only way out is through direct action.
- zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
  Yeah, but it feels like shouting into the void.
- King-Aaron 11mo ago
  Ask the dragon nicely to give up it's gold
napierzaza 11mo ago
[dead]
slashdave 11mo ago
The whole point of the crypto market is decentralization. So who do you want to act?
- wmf 11mo ago
  The whole point of the government is to ban harmful externalities like crypto speculation.
  - christophilus 11mo ago
    That’s not the point of the government.
  - jMyles 11mo ago
    I think there's a real concern that giving governments (particularly imperialist governments with the ability to project massive force both domestically and in foreign affairs) the power to criminalize voluntary economic activity tends to entrench wealth and power rather than to lubricate mobility. Moreover, while the government can have a fairly significant impact on Wall St., ForEx, and on interest rates and worldwide financial markets (though in each of these cases, it seems that despite perhaps well-intentioned regulations, the norms and fraud, abuse, and predatory instruments), there are even worst second-order effects when huge governments attempt to meddle in areas where they can exert relatively little control, as exemplified by drug prohibition for example. It's not obvious what banning crypto speculation might have - it will surely make crypto (and speculative crypto instruments) more valuable in some markets due to the smuggling risk - is that likely to be assistive to whomever you're trying to help?
    - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
      > real concern that giving governments...the power to criminalize voluntary economic activity tends to entrench wealth and power rather than to lubricate mobility Uh, sure. But this isn't a real political phenomenon. When concerns arise around power and wealth entrenchment, the solution has never been to reduce the state's power to regulate the economy.
      - jMyles 11mo ago
        > When concerns arise around power and wealth entrenchment, the solution has never been to reduce the state's power to regulate the economy. I'm not sure why you believe that. For example, The fall of the Soviet Union - in some ways the most significant economic restructuring of the 20th century - was precisely that.
        JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        Fair enough. (Granted, not well read on that event.)
      - wmf 11mo ago
  - Bender 11mo ago
    It was. Governments either fell behind on crypto or were in on it. [1][2] The laws for the physical equivalents were applied in the early 19th century. It is repeating all over again. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU [video][7 mins] [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA [video][4 mins]
- zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
  I mean this less about crypto directly and more about the current state of the economy and society. The K economy with the top living in over the top decadence while below it's living day to day, barely getting by for a huge number of people. Bitcoin hoarders are just the most glaring symbol of that.
DaiPlusPlus 11mo ago
> So many people below the poverty line barely making it by and then you have this stuff and Wallstreet Bets. I agree the juxtaposition demonstrates how callous our society is - but would you agree that these are two entirely independent things, though? (i.e. we could have eliminated poverty while still having irrationally overpriced BTC; or maybe in the future when BTC's value eventually reverts back to 2 pizzas we will still have poverty and destitution.
- zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
  In theory that would be great, but that isn't what is happening, it's getting progressively more debauched year after year. I'm not saying Stalinism or nothing, but I don't see the people with power doing anything beyond helping out the already wealthy. It's grotesque.
- lmm 11mo ago
  I don't think it's independent. I think part of the reason for the rise of gambling in all its forms of late is a certain nihilism/despair among the younger generation (one that's not really unjustified; the median under-30 citizen now has no reasonable hope of ever owning a home anywhere where they could earn enough to support themselves, much less a family, for example).
satvikpendem 11mo ago
There's a subreddit called exactly that, r/iwantout. Turns out the grass is not actually greener on the other side, because, for many people, wherever you go, there you are, as the saying goes.
- chris_wot 11mo ago
  Be careful, the grass is greener in other countries, but not perfect. I feel sorry if you live in the U.S.
  - iowemoretohim 11mo ago
    As a fellow American said: "I don't think about you at all."
    - chris_wot 11mo ago
      That's kind of the point... and hardly surprising, you don't think at all.
      - satvikpendem 11mo ago
        Come on now, this sort of stuff breaks the rules of this site.
- zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
  I don't expect it to be better, it's just soul crushing to see this happen in the place I grew up. Soul destroying. It's such a let down on a whole society scale. Maybe I would be less emotionally attached to what is going on somewhere else. This all just makes me feel like vomiting.
  - satvikpendem 11mo ago
    It can be equally soul destroying once you move there too. I know it can feel hopeless currently but for most people the solution isn't to move to a new place but to actually fix the issues they're having at home, as it's often more personal than governmental, unless you're in some active warzone. There are posts there like this that make the point better than I can: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/s/g7L2i4OKyI https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/s/g7L2i4OKyI

Computer0 11mo ago

The only way out is through direct action.

zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
Yeah, but it feels like shouting into the void.
King-Aaron 11mo ago
Ask the dragon nicely to give up it's gold

napierzaza 11mo ago

[dead]

slashdave 11mo ago

The whole point of the crypto market is decentralization. So who do you want to act?

wmf 11mo ago
The whole point of the government is to ban harmful externalities like crypto speculation.
- christophilus 11mo ago
  That’s not the point of the government.
- jMyles 11mo ago
  I think there's a real concern that giving governments (particularly imperialist governments with the ability to project massive force both domestically and in foreign affairs) the power to criminalize voluntary economic activity tends to entrench wealth and power rather than to lubricate mobility. Moreover, while the government can have a fairly significant impact on Wall St., ForEx, and on interest rates and worldwide financial markets (though in each of these cases, it seems that despite perhaps well-intentioned regulations, the norms and fraud, abuse, and predatory instruments), there are even worst second-order effects when huge governments attempt to meddle in areas where they can exert relatively little control, as exemplified by drug prohibition for example. It's not obvious what banning crypto speculation might have - it will surely make crypto (and speculative crypto instruments) more valuable in some markets due to the smuggling risk - is that likely to be assistive to whomever you're trying to help?
  - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
    > real concern that giving governments...the power to criminalize voluntary economic activity tends to entrench wealth and power rather than to lubricate mobility Uh, sure. But this isn't a real political phenomenon. When concerns arise around power and wealth entrenchment, the solution has never been to reduce the state's power to regulate the economy.
    - jMyles 11mo ago
      > When concerns arise around power and wealth entrenchment, the solution has never been to reduce the state's power to regulate the economy. I'm not sure why you believe that. For example, The fall of the Soviet Union - in some ways the most significant economic restructuring of the 20th century - was precisely that.
      - JumpCrisscross 11mo ago
        Fair enough. (Granted, not well read on that event.)
    - wmf 11mo ago
- Bender 11mo ago
  It was. Governments either fell behind on crypto or were in on it. [1][2] The laws for the physical equivalents were applied in the early 19th century. It is repeating all over again. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU [video][7 mins] [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA [video][4 mins]
zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
I mean this less about crypto directly and more about the current state of the economy and society. The K economy with the top living in over the top decadence while below it's living day to day, barely getting by for a huge number of people. Bitcoin hoarders are just the most glaring symbol of that.

DaiPlusPlus 11mo ago

> So many people below the poverty line barely making it by and then you have this stuff and Wallstreet Bets. I agree the juxtaposition demonstrates how callous our society is - but would you agree that these are two entirely independent things, though? (i.e. we could have eliminated poverty while still having irrationally overpriced BTC; or maybe in the future when BTC's value eventually reverts back to 2 pizzas we will still have poverty and destitution.

zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
In theory that would be great, but that isn't what is happening, it's getting progressively more debauched year after year. I'm not saying Stalinism or nothing, but I don't see the people with power doing anything beyond helping out the already wealthy. It's grotesque.
lmm 11mo ago
I don't think it's independent. I think part of the reason for the rise of gambling in all its forms of late is a certain nihilism/despair among the younger generation (one that's not really unjustified; the median under-30 citizen now has no reasonable hope of ever owning a home anywhere where they could earn enough to support themselves, much less a family, for example).

satvikpendem 11mo ago

There's a subreddit called exactly that, r/iwantout. Turns out the grass is not actually greener on the other side, because, for many people, wherever you go, there you are, as the saying goes.

chris_wot 11mo ago
Be careful, the grass is greener in other countries, but not perfect. I feel sorry if you live in the U.S.
- iowemoretohim 11mo ago
  As a fellow American said: "I don't think about you at all."
  - chris_wot 11mo ago
    That's kind of the point... and hardly surprising, you don't think at all.
    - satvikpendem 11mo ago
      Come on now, this sort of stuff breaks the rules of this site.
zerosizedweasle 11mo ago
I don't expect it to be better, it's just soul crushing to see this happen in the place I grew up. Soul destroying. It's such a let down on a whole society scale. Maybe I would be less emotionally attached to what is going on somewhere else. This all just makes me feel like vomiting.
- satvikpendem 11mo ago
  It can be equally soul destroying once you move there too. I know it can feel hopeless currently but for most people the solution isn't to move to a new place but to actually fix the issues they're having at home, as it's often more personal than governmental, unless you're in some active warzone. There are posts there like this that make the point better than I can: https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/s/g7L2i4OKyI https://www.reddit.com/r/IWantOut/s/g7L2i4OKyI