3 ms·

What do you do when cameras start calculating the average speed over some distance, rather than doing single-spot measurements? :)

by zxcdw 14y ago

m_eiman 14y ago
This has been tried in Sweden, and IIRC the court said that since it can't be proven who drove the car between the cameras it's not possible to fine the driver.
- furyg3 14y ago
  Bah, just fine the car owner, it's easy enough for him to have control of his vehicle, unless he reported it as stolen. This isn't a murder trial, it's a minor infraction, like a parking ticket.
  - m_eiman 14y ago
    Agreed, but for some reason that's not allowed by current Swedish law.
  - diggan 14y ago
    But what if it's not the car owner who drives the car when speeding, should the owner still be fined? I rather see a society where guilty people skip a fine than honest people get a fine.
  - raleec 14y ago
    In Washington DC, they give the owner the option of specifying who the driver was, and they forward the ticket.
jrnkntl 14y ago
We have this in the Netherlands (among others), it's called 'trajectcontrole' here, and it works/helps enforcing the speed. See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_(speed_camera) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_(speed_camera)
smiler 14y ago
We already have those in the UK
ljf 14y ago
They have these on various motorways and cities in the UK - and they work brilliantly - once you are in (a well signposted) 'average speed check' area, everyone slows down and does the speed limit. You could still be warned that you are aproaching the area though. Interestingly these use front mounted cameras (to capture the driver) so have no effect on motorbikes - though the general slower speed seems to slow them on the motorways. As a cyclist (and driver) I think they are great for city driving, and a much better solution than speedbumps or other calming measures.
- pvidler 14y ago
  Average speed checks are awful — I spend more time looking at the speedo than I do the road, as I try to keep close to the limit while not hitting the car in front. And they are always for odd speeds that I find difficult to maintain (just the wrong pedal position). Perhaps they make sense when everyone has cruise control as standard to rely on, but until then a mass rollout would drive me to public transport. Or is that the point?
- jrabone 14y ago
  Except they don't - they do whatever their woefully inaccurate speedometer thinks the limit is. Since I drive something with cruise control and GPS-indicated speed, I invariably find myself iterating cruise control settings to match with the traffic. As for changing lanes, forget it - everyone will be driving 3 feet of the bumper in front, because the traffic concertina'ed up when it saw the first camera. You'd better be in the correct lane for your exit before you hit the averaging zone, or you're taking the scenic route. Depressingly, I can't think of a better solution. Driving makes people into assholes, myself included, and averaging cameras are about the only thing that works. Speed bumps and traffic calming simply cause an arms race of bigger and bigger SUVs that simply roll over anything smaller than a mini with impunity. I suppose they could try the Edinburgh approach of simply not repairing the roads, in favour of spending the money on an overgrown toy train set for the current set of ideologically-challenged councillors.
- thedrbrian 14y ago
  Except when you want to leave the motorway only to find 3 lanes cars driving in formation preventing anyone from leaving.
NameNickHN 14y ago
The app from blitzer.de (called CamSam in the various app stores) lets you know if there is a section control ahead. If you're still speeding, that's your own fault, I guess. It's also planned to display the average speed during a section control, but that is not part yet of the current version, I believe.
buro9 14y ago
Depends on the frequency of cameras, if it is just at the on and off ramps of a motorway, then one could exceed the speed limit for most of the way, determine how much time has been saved and enjoy a tea break at the service station before the last exit. On a whole day drive that would still be faster as the speeding means you don't have to add on time for breaks. In France that's effectively what happens. The toll gates are used to determine the average speed check over a journey, and so you can notice that the last service station before a toll gate is busier. Not that I had a chance to do the same in the clapped out old Volvo I drove through France in. I personally think average speed checks are great. In London I'd love to see the congestion charge cameras (number recognition technology) also used to check for average speed between any two cameras. I think that if people knew the whole of the city centre had average speed check enforcement that it would be a great benefit to the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and other road users in the city.
- Mordor 14y ago
  How about no cameras and no road markings, creating a shared space for everyone?
  - ralph 14y ago
    I've lived somewhere like that. It works well but then the streets were designed with that in mind; often narrow with lots of bends and poor visibility far ahead, a car driver has no choice but to go relatively slowly.

What do you do when cameras start calculating the average speed over some distance, rather than doing single-spot measurements? :)

by zxcdw 14y ago

What do you do when cameras start calculating the average speed over some distance, rather than doing single-spot measurements? :)

m_eiman 14y ago

This has been tried in Sweden, and IIRC the court said that since it can't be proven who drove the car between the cameras it's not possible to fine the driver.

furyg3 14y ago
Bah, just fine the car owner, it's easy enough for him to have control of his vehicle, unless he reported it as stolen. This isn't a murder trial, it's a minor infraction, like a parking ticket.
- m_eiman 14y ago
  Agreed, but for some reason that's not allowed by current Swedish law.
- diggan 14y ago
  But what if it's not the car owner who drives the car when speeding, should the owner still be fined? I rather see a society where guilty people skip a fine than honest people get a fine.
- raleec 14y ago
  In Washington DC, they give the owner the option of specifying who the driver was, and they forward the ticket.

jrnkntl 14y ago

We have this in the Netherlands (among others), it's called 'trajectcontrole' here, and it works/helps enforcing the speed. See; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_(speed_camera) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECS_(speed_camera)

smiler 14y ago

We already have those in the UK

ljf 14y ago

They have these on various motorways and cities in the UK - and they work brilliantly - once you are in (a well signposted) 'average speed check' area, everyone slows down and does the speed limit. You could still be warned that you are aproaching the area though. Interestingly these use front mounted cameras (to capture the driver) so have no effect on motorbikes - though the general slower speed seems to slow them on the motorways. As a cyclist (and driver) I think they are great for city driving, and a much better solution than speedbumps or other calming measures.

pvidler 14y ago
Average speed checks are awful — I spend more time looking at the speedo than I do the road, as I try to keep close to the limit while not hitting the car in front. And they are always for odd speeds that I find difficult to maintain (just the wrong pedal position). Perhaps they make sense when everyone has cruise control as standard to rely on, but until then a mass rollout would drive me to public transport. Or is that the point?
jrabone 14y ago
Except they don't - they do whatever their woefully inaccurate speedometer thinks the limit is. Since I drive something with cruise control and GPS-indicated speed, I invariably find myself iterating cruise control settings to match with the traffic. As for changing lanes, forget it - everyone will be driving 3 feet of the bumper in front, because the traffic concertina'ed up when it saw the first camera. You'd better be in the correct lane for your exit before you hit the averaging zone, or you're taking the scenic route. Depressingly, I can't think of a better solution. Driving makes people into assholes, myself included, and averaging cameras are about the only thing that works. Speed bumps and traffic calming simply cause an arms race of bigger and bigger SUVs that simply roll over anything smaller than a mini with impunity. I suppose they could try the Edinburgh approach of simply not repairing the roads, in favour of spending the money on an overgrown toy train set for the current set of ideologically-challenged councillors.
thedrbrian 14y ago
Except when you want to leave the motorway only to find 3 lanes cars driving in formation preventing anyone from leaving.

NameNickHN 14y ago

The app from blitzer.de (called CamSam in the various app stores) lets you know if there is a section control ahead. If you're still speeding, that's your own fault, I guess. It's also planned to display the average speed during a section control, but that is not part yet of the current version, I believe.

buro9 14y ago

Depends on the frequency of cameras, if it is just at the on and off ramps of a motorway, then one could exceed the speed limit for most of the way, determine how much time has been saved and enjoy a tea break at the service station before the last exit. On a whole day drive that would still be faster as the speeding means you don't have to add on time for breaks. In France that's effectively what happens. The toll gates are used to determine the average speed check over a journey, and so you can notice that the last service station before a toll gate is busier. Not that I had a chance to do the same in the clapped out old Volvo I drove through France in. I personally think average speed checks are great. In London I'd love to see the congestion charge cameras (number recognition technology) also used to check for average speed between any two cameras. I think that if people knew the whole of the city centre had average speed check enforcement that it would be a great benefit to the safety of pedestrians, cyclists and other road users in the city.

Mordor 14y ago
How about no cameras and no road markings, creating a shared space for everyone?
- ralph 14y ago
  I've lived somewhere like that. It works well but then the streets were designed with that in mind; often narrow with lots of bends and poor visibility far ahead, a car driver has no choice but to go relatively slowly.