4 ms·

If you're on TRT, you are already not producing enough on your own.

by gtirloni 11mo ago

tortilla 11mo ago
Unless you went on when you weren't really low because the men's vitality clinic pushed you into a treatment protocol* * not me but I see it with men in my age range
- PartiallyTyped 11mo ago
  I am a big fan of Dr Rohin Francis, and this landed on my youtube's front-page recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPsKTfFQFqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPsKTfFQFqc
- Aurornis 11mo ago
  I’m getting downvoted in another comment for saying this, but it’s a growing problem. In some surveys of TRT patients up to 1/4 of them didn’t even have their testosterone levels measured before being prescribed TRT. The men’s health clinics are finding excuses to diagnose everyone who calls. The lifetime value of a monthly TRT customer is very high.
- chimeracoder 11mo ago
  > Unless you went on when you weren't really low because the men's vitality clinic pushed you into a treatment protocol Saying that the men's vitality clinic "pushed you" into a treatment protocol is like saying that a fertility clinic pushed you into getting pregnant. Sure, it's a common outcome, but you had an idea of what you wanted out of it before you walked in the door.
  - dragonwriter 11mo ago
    > Saying that the men's vitality clinic "pushed you" into a treatment protocol is like saying that a fertility clinic pushed you into getting pregnant. No, it isn't. “Men’s vitality” doesn’t mean “getting pumped with testosterone regardless of indications” the way “fertility” means “getting pregnant” in either literal denotation of words or the understanding of the general population. > Sure, it's a common outcome, but you had an idea of what you wanted out of it before you walked in the door. Yes, but in the case of fertility clinics, getting pregnant aas definitely the outcome beinf sought. Being pumped with testosterone isn’t the outcome being sought from a men’s vitality clinic, it is (even for the people who are actively thinking about it) a mechanism (and not an appropriate one for every patient) for atteempting to acheive the desired outcome. If you go to a fertility clinic and they don't attempt to identify the source of your fertility issues and just pump you with hormones not indicated for your specific issue, that would be wrong, too.
    - chimeracoder 11mo ago
      > No, it isn't. “Men’s vitality” doesn’t mean “getting pumped with testosterone regardless of indications” When I Google "men's vitality clinic", the top result I see is titled "Your experts for testosterone replacement therapy...". TRT is front and center. > Being pumped with testosterone isn’t the outcome being sought from a men’s vitality clinic, it is (even for the people who are actively thinking about it) a mechanism (and not an appropriate one for every patient) for atteempting to acheive the desired outcome. This is such a weird distinction to try and make. I frequently see ads for these services, and even when they're not so explicit as that one is about what they're selling, it's extremely clear what demographic they're going after and what the hook is. Testosterone being a Schedule III substance, "men's vitality" is the way that they can legally advertise an service that prescribes AAS. It's no more of a secret that men's vitality clinics prescribe testosterone than it is that fertility clinics are prescribing estradiol. Both of these are sex hormones that induce a specific effect on the body which the patient is looking for. Can I imagine someone walking into a men's vitality clinic and being surprised that they're getting offered testosterone? Sure, and there's also that German couple who went to a fertility clinic because they weren't having a baby, and were surprised to learn that they needed to start having sex. Clueless people exist. That doesn't mean that it's not readily obvious to anyone who's paying attention what these clinics exist to do, and how they do it.
Aurornis 11mo ago
Unfortunately that’s not true any more. TRT over prescribing is a major problem right now. Studies of TRT patients have even shown that 1/4 of TRT patients may not have had their testosterone levels measured before being prescribed TRT: (Source https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6406807/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6406807/ ) Completely unacceptable given how cheap testosterone testing is, but its happening. TRT clinics have also become a big business. Their business model relies on prescribing TRT to anyone and then charging them monthly or quarterly to continue receiving those prescriptions, which as the parent comment noted become physically necessary after TRT causes the testes to atrophy. The trick the clinics are using now is “diagnosing by symptoms”. They have a long list of “symptoms of low T” and the patient is basically prompted to check off enough boxes to justify TRT. It’s the same model as the medical marijuana card businesses where you can go in and the doctor will “find” a reason to give you the prescription. It’s a real problem when combined with social media influencers who tell people that everything is a symptom of low testosterone and TRT will fix it.
- gadders 11mo ago
  >>The trick the clinics are using now is “diagnosing by symptoms”. You can't really diagnose by levels, though, unless you knew what that person's previous levels were. Setting an average across a population is not really realistic - you can't say Shaq should work to the same levels as, say, Emo Phillips. TRT is normally used due to aging, though, so you are unlikely to have your testosterone levels spontaneously recover as you get older. You do tend to need to be on it for life, in the same way that women stay on HRT. However, if you did need to get off, bodybuilders have "post cycle therapies" to kick start production so it seems to be possible.
  - Aurornis 11mo ago
    If someone shows up with a testosterone level of 700 you can (and should) explain that low testosterone is not the explanation for whatever they’re suffering from. The TRT clinics are ignoring levels or even not testing at all. They’ll find an excuse to prescribe to someone even who has clinically high levels because they want the monthly recurring revenue from keeping that customer for life.
theptip 11mo ago
But TRT suppresses endogenous production further, so if you go off it you’re worse than when you started.
asafira 11mo ago
Isn't there TRT that doesn't impact your endogenous production? (HCG, SERMs)

If you're on TRT, you are already not producing enough on your own.

Unless you went on when you weren't really low because the men's vitality clinic pushed you into a treatment protocol* * not me but I see it with men in my age range

PartiallyTyped 11mo ago
I am a big fan of Dr Rohin Francis, and this landed on my youtube's front-page recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPsKTfFQFqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPsKTfFQFqc
Aurornis 11mo ago
I’m getting downvoted in another comment for saying this, but it’s a growing problem. In some surveys of TRT patients up to 1/4 of them didn’t even have their testosterone levels measured before being prescribed TRT. The men’s health clinics are finding excuses to diagnose everyone who calls. The lifetime value of a monthly TRT customer is very high.
chimeracoder 11mo ago
> Unless you went on when you weren't really low because the men's vitality clinic pushed you into a treatment protocol Saying that the men's vitality clinic "pushed you" into a treatment protocol is like saying that a fertility clinic pushed you into getting pregnant. Sure, it's a common outcome, but you had an idea of what you wanted out of it before you walked in the door.
- dragonwriter 11mo ago
  > Saying that the men's vitality clinic "pushed you" into a treatment protocol is like saying that a fertility clinic pushed you into getting pregnant. No, it isn't. “Men’s vitality” doesn’t mean “getting pumped with testosterone regardless of indications” the way “fertility” means “getting pregnant” in either literal denotation of words or the understanding of the general population. > Sure, it's a common outcome, but you had an idea of what you wanted out of it before you walked in the door. Yes, but in the case of fertility clinics, getting pregnant aas definitely the outcome beinf sought. Being pumped with testosterone isn’t the outcome being sought from a men’s vitality clinic, it is (even for the people who are actively thinking about it) a mechanism (and not an appropriate one for every patient) for atteempting to acheive the desired outcome. If you go to a fertility clinic and they don't attempt to identify the source of your fertility issues and just pump you with hormones not indicated for your specific issue, that would be wrong, too.
  - chimeracoder 11mo ago
    > No, it isn't. “Men’s vitality” doesn’t mean “getting pumped with testosterone regardless of indications” When I Google "men's vitality clinic", the top result I see is titled "Your experts for testosterone replacement therapy...". TRT is front and center. > Being pumped with testosterone isn’t the outcome being sought from a men’s vitality clinic, it is (even for the people who are actively thinking about it) a mechanism (and not an appropriate one for every patient) for atteempting to acheive the desired outcome. This is such a weird distinction to try and make. I frequently see ads for these services, and even when they're not so explicit as that one is about what they're selling, it's extremely clear what demographic they're going after and what the hook is. Testosterone being a Schedule III substance, "men's vitality" is the way that they can legally advertise an service that prescribes AAS. It's no more of a secret that men's vitality clinics prescribe testosterone than it is that fertility clinics are prescribing estradiol. Both of these are sex hormones that induce a specific effect on the body which the patient is looking for. Can I imagine someone walking into a men's vitality clinic and being surprised that they're getting offered testosterone? Sure, and there's also that German couple who went to a fertility clinic because they weren't having a baby, and were surprised to learn that they needed to start having sex. Clueless people exist. That doesn't mean that it's not readily obvious to anyone who's paying attention what these clinics exist to do, and how they do it.

Aurornis 11mo ago

Unfortunately that’s not true any more. TRT over prescribing is a major problem right now. Studies of TRT patients have even shown that 1/4 of TRT patients may not have had their testosterone levels measured before being prescribed TRT: (Source https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6406807/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6406807/ ) Completely unacceptable given how cheap testosterone testing is, but its happening. TRT clinics have also become a big business. Their business model relies on prescribing TRT to anyone and then charging them monthly or quarterly to continue receiving those prescriptions, which as the parent comment noted become physically necessary after TRT causes the testes to atrophy. The trick the clinics are using now is “diagnosing by symptoms”. They have a long list of “symptoms of low T” and the patient is basically prompted to check off enough boxes to justify TRT. It’s the same model as the medical marijuana card businesses where you can go in and the doctor will “find” a reason to give you the prescription. It’s a real problem when combined with social media influencers who tell people that everything is a symptom of low testosterone and TRT will fix it.

gadders 11mo ago
>>The trick the clinics are using now is “diagnosing by symptoms”. You can't really diagnose by levels, though, unless you knew what that person's previous levels were. Setting an average across a population is not really realistic - you can't say Shaq should work to the same levels as, say, Emo Phillips. TRT is normally used due to aging, though, so you are unlikely to have your testosterone levels spontaneously recover as you get older. You do tend to need to be on it for life, in the same way that women stay on HRT. However, if you did need to get off, bodybuilders have "post cycle therapies" to kick start production so it seems to be possible.
- Aurornis 11mo ago
  If someone shows up with a testosterone level of 700 you can (and should) explain that low testosterone is not the explanation for whatever they’re suffering from. The TRT clinics are ignoring levels or even not testing at all. They’ll find an excuse to prescribe to someone even who has clinically high levels because they want the monthly recurring revenue from keeping that customer for life.

theptip 11mo ago

But TRT suppresses endogenous production further, so if you go off it you’re worse than when you started.

asafira 11mo ago

Isn't there TRT that doesn't impact your endogenous production? (HCG, SERMs)