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> Hackers have always tried out new technologies to see how they work – or break – so why would LLMs be any different? Who says we haven't tried it out?

lxgr 1y ago
Seems like various hackers came to various different conclusions from trying them out, then. Why feign surprise about this?
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  Why not? I was surprised how hard many here fell for the NFT thing, too.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    Please, not the old "AI is the new crypto" trope. Various people have been wrong on various predictions in the past, and it seems to me that any implied strong overlap is anecdotal at best and wishful (why?) thinking at worst. The only really embarrassing behavior is never updating your priors when your predictions are wrong. Also, if you're always right about all your prognoses, you should probably also not be in the HN comments but on a prediction market, on-chain or traditional :)
    - emptyfile 1y ago
      [dead]
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      I'm sorry, but the idiocy that was crypto-hype can't be dismissed this easily. It's hard to make a prediction on AI because things are moving so fast and the technology is actually useful, so I wouldn't fault anyone for being wrong in retrospect. But when it comes to NFTs: if you bought into that stuff you are either a sucker or a scammer and in both cases your future opinions can be safely discarded.
      - lxgr 1y ago
        > the idiocy that was crypto-hype can't be dismissed this easily. Maybe so, but would it be possible to not dismiss it elsewhere? I just don't see the causal relation between AI and crypto, other than that both might be completely overhyped, world-changing, or boringly correctly estimated in their respective impact.
    - intended 1y ago
      That’s an old trope? It really is the first time I’m seeing it.
      - lxgr 1y ago
        It's a whole thing, yes. Just because - crypto was massively hyped and then crashed (although it's more than recovered), - many grifters chase hypes, and - there's undeniably an AI hype going on at the moment doesn't necessarily imply that AI is full of grifters or confirms any adjacent theories (as in, could be true, could be false, but the argument does not hold).
  - retsibsi 1y ago
    > I was surprised how hard many here fell for the NFT thing, too. Did they? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd like to see some evidence, because NFTs were always obvious nonsense. I'm sure there were some grifters posting here, and others playing devil's advocate or refuting anti-NFT arguments that somehow went too far, but I'd be genuinely surprised if the general sentiment was not overwhelmingly negative/dismissive.
hamdingers 1y ago
> I personally don’t touch LLMs with a stick. I don’t let them near my brain. Many of my friends share that sentiment. FTA. I know tons of people where "tried it out" means they've seen Google's abysmal search summary feature, or merely seen the memes and read news articles about how it's wrong sometimes, and haven't explored any further.
- bluefirebrand 1y ago
  Personally I'm watching people I used to respect start to rely on AI more and more and their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly while their reliance is growing, so I'm really not interested in following that path They seem just as enthusiastic as many of the pro AI voices here on HN, while the quality of their work declines. It makes me extremely skeptical of anyone who is enthusiastic about AI. It seems to me like it's a delusion machine
  - sosodev 1y ago
    How do you know their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly? Does using an LLM cause one to suddenly forget everything?
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - lxgr 1y ago
      I could definitely see that happen. Besides people simply getting out of practice (or never getting any to being with), automation complacency is a real problem. We'll need to be even more intentional about when to use LLMs than we should arguably already be about any type of automation.
    - bluefirebrand 1y ago
      > How do you know their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly I was describing anecdotally what I have witnessed. Devs that I used to have a reasonably high opinion of struggling to explain or understand the PRs they are making > Does using an LLM cause one to suddenly forget everything? I think we can probably agree that when you stop using skills, those skills will atrophy to some extent Can we also agree that using LLMs to generate code is different from the skill of writing code? If so, it stands to reason that the more people rely on LLMs to generate things for them, the more their skills of creating those things by hand will atrophy I don't think it should be very controversial to think that LLMs are making people worse at things It is also entirely possible that people are becoming better (or faster, anyways. Extremely debatable if faster = better imo) at building software using LLMs while also becoming worse at actually writing code

lxgr 1y ago

Seems like various hackers came to various different conclusions from trying them out, then. Why feign surprise about this?

ceejayoz 1y ago
Why not? I was surprised how hard many here fell for the NFT thing, too.
- lxgr 1y ago
  Please, not the old "AI is the new crypto" trope. Various people have been wrong on various predictions in the past, and it seems to me that any implied strong overlap is anecdotal at best and wishful (why?) thinking at worst. The only really embarrassing behavior is never updating your priors when your predictions are wrong. Also, if you're always right about all your prognoses, you should probably also not be in the HN comments but on a prediction market, on-chain or traditional :)
  - emptyfile 1y ago
    [dead]
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    I'm sorry, but the idiocy that was crypto-hype can't be dismissed this easily. It's hard to make a prediction on AI because things are moving so fast and the technology is actually useful, so I wouldn't fault anyone for being wrong in retrospect. But when it comes to NFTs: if you bought into that stuff you are either a sucker or a scammer and in both cases your future opinions can be safely discarded.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      > the idiocy that was crypto-hype can't be dismissed this easily. Maybe so, but would it be possible to not dismiss it elsewhere? I just don't see the causal relation between AI and crypto, other than that both might be completely overhyped, world-changing, or boringly correctly estimated in their respective impact.
  - intended 1y ago
    That’s an old trope? It really is the first time I’m seeing it.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      It's a whole thing, yes. Just because - crypto was massively hyped and then crashed (although it's more than recovered), - many grifters chase hypes, and - there's undeniably an AI hype going on at the moment doesn't necessarily imply that AI is full of grifters or confirms any adjacent theories (as in, could be true, could be false, but the argument does not hold).
- retsibsi 1y ago
  > I was surprised how hard many here fell for the NFT thing, too. Did they? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'd like to see some evidence, because NFTs were always obvious nonsense. I'm sure there were some grifters posting here, and others playing devil's advocate or refuting anti-NFT arguments that somehow went too far, but I'd be genuinely surprised if the general sentiment was not overwhelmingly negative/dismissive.

hamdingers 1y ago

> I personally don’t touch LLMs with a stick. I don’t let them near my brain. Many of my friends share that sentiment. FTA. I know tons of people where "tried it out" means they've seen Google's abysmal search summary feature, or merely seen the memes and read news articles about how it's wrong sometimes, and haven't explored any further.

bluefirebrand 1y ago
Personally I'm watching people I used to respect start to rely on AI more and more and their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly while their reliance is growing, so I'm really not interested in following that path They seem just as enthusiastic as many of the pro AI voices here on HN, while the quality of their work declines. It makes me extremely skeptical of anyone who is enthusiastic about AI. It seems to me like it's a delusion machine
- sosodev 1y ago
  How do you know their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly? Does using an LLM cause one to suddenly forget everything?
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - lxgr 1y ago
    I could definitely see that happen. Besides people simply getting out of practice (or never getting any to being with), automation complacency is a real problem. We'll need to be even more intentional about when to use LLMs than we should arguably already be about any type of automation.
  - bluefirebrand 1y ago
    > How do you know their skills and knowledge are declining rapidly I was describing anecdotally what I have witnessed. Devs that I used to have a reasonably high opinion of struggling to explain or understand the PRs they are making > Does using an LLM cause one to suddenly forget everything? I think we can probably agree that when you stop using skills, those skills will atrophy to some extent Can we also agree that using LLMs to generate code is different from the skill of writing code? If so, it stands to reason that the more people rely on LLMs to generate things for them, the more their skills of creating those things by hand will atrophy I don't think it should be very controversial to think that LLMs are making people worse at things It is also entirely possible that people are becoming better (or faster, anyways. Extremely debatable if faster = better imo) at building software using LLMs while also becoming worse at actually writing code