7 ms·

> programmers should be some of the most worry-free individuals on this planet, the job is easy, well-paid, not a lot of health drawbacks if you have a proper s

by csmantle 11mo ago

> programmers should be some of the most worry-free individuals on this planet, the job is easy, well-paid, not a lot of health drawbacks if you have a proper setup and relatively easy to find a new job when you need it Not in where I live though. Competition is fierce, both in industry and academia, for most posts being saturated and most employees face "HR optimization" in their late 30s. Not to mention working over time, and its physical consequences.

embedding-shape 11mo ago
Again, compare this to other professions, don't look at in isolation, and you'll see why you're still (or will have, seems you're a student still) having a much more pleasant life than others.
- MattRix 11mo ago
  This “compare it to other professions” thing doesn’t really work when those other professions are not the one you actually do. The idea that someone should never be miserable in their job because other more miserable jobs exist is not realistic.
  - embedding-shape 11mo ago
    It's a useful thing to look at when you feel like all hope is lost and "wow is so difficult being a programmer" strikes, because it'll make you realize how easy you have it compared to non-programmers/nom-tech people.
    - MattRix 11mo ago
      Realizing how supposedly “easy” you have it compared to other people is not as encouraging or motivational as you’re implying it is. And how “easy” do you have it if you can’t find a job in your field?
      - embedding-shape 11mo ago
        Might be worth investigating why it isn't if so. People stressed about their situation usually find some solace in being helped realize what their position in the world actually is, as everything is always relative, not absolute.
- tdeck 11mo ago
  This is completely irrelevant. The point is that the profession is being devalued, i.e. losing value relative to where it was. If, for example, the US dollar loses value, it's not a "counterargument" to point out that it's still much more valuable than the Zimbabwe dollar.
  - embedding-shape 11mo ago
    It isn't though, none of our lives are happening in isolation, even if you don't believe it, there are other humans out there, with real responsibilities outside of computers. Even if the competition is fierce, do you think it isn't for other professions, or what's the point? Of course a job that is well-paid, has few drawbacks and let you sit indoors in front of computer, probably doing something you enjoy in general, is popular and has competition.
    - tdeck 11mo ago
      > even if you don't believe it, there are other humans out there, with real responsibilities outside of computers. Are those people's lives getting better because the capital class is able to devalue more skilled jobs every year?
- ramon156 11mo ago
  Do other professions expect you to work during personal time? At least blue collar people are done when they get told they're done I get your viewpoint though, physically exhausting work is probably much worse. I do want to point out that 40 hours has always been above average, and right now its the default
  - embedding-shape 11mo ago
    > Do other professions expect you to work during personal time? At least blue collar people are done when they get told they're done No, and after my first programming job, neither does it happen in development. Make sure you join the right place, have the right boss, and set expectations up front, and you too can surely avoid it if it's important to you :) Usually you can throw in "work/life balance" somehow to gauge how they feel about it. And yes, plenty of blue collar people are expected to be available during your personal time, for various reasons. Sometimes just quick questions (especially if you're a manager and you're having time off), sometimes emergencies that requires you to head on over to the place. Ask anyone who owned or even just managed a restaurant about that specific thing, and maybe you'll be surprised.
llm_nerd 11mo ago
"Not in where I live though" I mean, not anywhere, and the data absolutely annihilates their ridiculous claims. In subsequent posts they've retreated back to "yeah, but someone somewhere has it worse", invalidating this whole absurd thread. Their comment has little correlation with reality, and seems to be a contrived, self-comforting fiction. Most firms have implemented hiring freezes if not actively downsizing their dev staff. Many extremely experienced devs are finding the market absolutely atrocious, getting zero bites. And for all of the "well us senior devs are safe" sentiment often seen on here, many shops seem to be more comfortable hiring cheap and eager junior devs and foregoing seniors because LLMs fill in a lot of the "grizzled wisdom". The junior to senior ratio is rapidly increasing, and devs who lived on golden handshakes are suddenly finding their ego bruised and a market where they're fighting for low-pay jobs.
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  > Their comment has little correlation with reality Or you know, we live and experience different parts of the world? Where you are, you might be right, and where I am, I might be right. But nuance tends to be harder than trying to find some absolute truth and finding out it doesn't match your preconceived notion about the whole world.

embedding-shape 11mo ago

Again, compare this to other professions, don't look at in isolation, and you'll see why you're still (or will have, seems you're a student still) having a much more pleasant life than others.

MattRix 11mo ago
This “compare it to other professions” thing doesn’t really work when those other professions are not the one you actually do. The idea that someone should never be miserable in their job because other more miserable jobs exist is not realistic.
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  It's a useful thing to look at when you feel like all hope is lost and "wow is so difficult being a programmer" strikes, because it'll make you realize how easy you have it compared to non-programmers/nom-tech people.
  - MattRix 11mo ago
    Realizing how supposedly “easy” you have it compared to other people is not as encouraging or motivational as you’re implying it is. And how “easy” do you have it if you can’t find a job in your field?
    - embedding-shape 11mo ago
      Might be worth investigating why it isn't if so. People stressed about their situation usually find some solace in being helped realize what their position in the world actually is, as everything is always relative, not absolute.
tdeck 11mo ago
This is completely irrelevant. The point is that the profession is being devalued, i.e. losing value relative to where it was. If, for example, the US dollar loses value, it's not a "counterargument" to point out that it's still much more valuable than the Zimbabwe dollar.
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  It isn't though, none of our lives are happening in isolation, even if you don't believe it, there are other humans out there, with real responsibilities outside of computers. Even if the competition is fierce, do you think it isn't for other professions, or what's the point? Of course a job that is well-paid, has few drawbacks and let you sit indoors in front of computer, probably doing something you enjoy in general, is popular and has competition.
  - tdeck 11mo ago
    > even if you don't believe it, there are other humans out there, with real responsibilities outside of computers. Are those people's lives getting better because the capital class is able to devalue more skilled jobs every year?
ramon156 11mo ago
Do other professions expect you to work during personal time? At least blue collar people are done when they get told they're done I get your viewpoint though, physically exhausting work is probably much worse. I do want to point out that 40 hours has always been above average, and right now its the default
- embedding-shape 11mo ago
  > Do other professions expect you to work during personal time? At least blue collar people are done when they get told they're done No, and after my first programming job, neither does it happen in development. Make sure you join the right place, have the right boss, and set expectations up front, and you too can surely avoid it if it's important to you :) Usually you can throw in "work/life balance" somehow to gauge how they feel about it. And yes, plenty of blue collar people are expected to be available during your personal time, for various reasons. Sometimes just quick questions (especially if you're a manager and you're having time off), sometimes emergencies that requires you to head on over to the place. Ask anyone who owned or even just managed a restaurant about that specific thing, and maybe you'll be surprised.

llm_nerd 11mo ago

"Not in where I live though" I mean, not anywhere, and the data absolutely annihilates their ridiculous claims. In subsequent posts they've retreated back to "yeah, but someone somewhere has it worse", invalidating this whole absurd thread. Their comment has little correlation with reality, and seems to be a contrived, self-comforting fiction. Most firms have implemented hiring freezes if not actively downsizing their dev staff. Many extremely experienced devs are finding the market absolutely atrocious, getting zero bites. And for all of the "well us senior devs are safe" sentiment often seen on here, many shops seem to be more comfortable hiring cheap and eager junior devs and foregoing seniors because LLMs fill in a lot of the "grizzled wisdom". The junior to senior ratio is rapidly increasing, and devs who lived on golden handshakes are suddenly finding their ego bruised and a market where they're fighting for low-pay jobs.

embedding-shape 11mo ago
> Their comment has little correlation with reality Or you know, we live and experience different parts of the world? Where you are, you might be right, and where I am, I might be right. But nuance tends to be harder than trying to find some absolute truth and finding out it doesn't match your preconceived notion about the whole world.