4 ms·

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic light being out. If "me-go-you-go" fails, why don't they just have a traffic offi

I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic light being out. If "me-go-you-go" fails, why don't they just have a traffic officer out there directing traffic manually?

vacri 14y ago
It's more like 20km of traffic lights being out. These roads are our core east-west arterial roads and the landscape dictates that there aren't many other roads for the traffic to travel on. I can't say why there aren't traffic police out there, but these are once-public roads that have been privatised. Also, these roads are highways, not traffic intersections. Point of trivia: before the current toll road company was given its mandate, our main east-west bridge (the Westgate) held the distinction of being one of the very few toll roads in the world that stopped being tolled when planned, when the cost was paid off. A few years of free travel, then this company was given the rights to the road just beyond the bridge...
- DrStalker 14y ago
  It's not traffic light out, it's traffic lights out and if there is a problem everyone will die because none of the safety system are working.
- jeza 14y ago
  It is the only uninterrupted motorway from the east to west sides of Melbourne, but not the only core arterial. There are other roads you can use to get from one side of town to the other. A lot of traffic using the tunnels is just commuter traffic from the east anyway. The tunnels never were public roads, they didn't exist. You can still drive on pretty much the entire length of the West Gate Freeway, right up to the tunnel portals without paying tolls. There are some short sections of motorway though that were previously un-tolled but are now tolled, though there has been some pretty extensive upgrades. That said I'm no way in favour of City Link, but the real core 'arterial' for urban commuting is our public transport system. :-)
  - vacri 14y ago
    Fair enough. I'm in the north, and the old Tulla freeway was definitely free all the way in, and now it's tolled, so that may be colouring my memory.
caf 14y ago
The ABC has an article with a quote that explains it better (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-cause-traffic-chaos/4292378 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-cause-...): CityLink spokeswoman Kate Murphy says the tunnels had to close as a precaution. "It's not just overhead signs [that are not working], it's also our safety systems as well," she said. "For example, in the tunnels the deluge systems or the smoke extraction systems which we may use in an emergency, we can't actually operate those as well, which is why we've had to take the dramatic measure of actually closing the tunnels."
- DrStalker 14y ago
  I had to hunt the article to find that, since the first impression is just speed limit signs/traffic lights being out which is not major. (and plenty of posts here suggest other people thought the same thing) The variable speed signs always have extra signs along the lines of "(80) if variable limit sign is disabled" as a fallback. Not being able to handle leaks, fume buildup, fires and other emergency conditions is a completely different story.
- rurounijones 14y ago
  The fact that their safety systems (Which anyone would expect to be separate from the traffic control systems) are also affected makes me wonder about the "computer glitch" angle.
  - batgaijin 14y ago
    Hmm... actually yeah that is a really good point. As much as I don't want to sound like a conspiracy person, that level of connection between those components is a bit too much to believe. Especially in Australia where they have insanely high standards for construction/electrical engineering.
  - Zenst 14y ago
    Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that caused it, either by design or error or a homer moment were somebody pressed the wrong button. Could even be somebody overloading the electrical phases in the datacentre and tripped the UPS into action for it to barth at the imbalance (seen that one). This is why they say computer glitch and count on the majority of non technical people to not question it.
lessnonymous 14y ago
(Ignoring all the safety stuff in other replies) These are tunnels over 3km long. You can't have cops down there without breathing apparatus - even if the extractors were safely operating.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  Why would it be safe for people driving vehicles, but not for police officers?
  - DrStalker 14y ago
    In a vaguely sealed container with air being supplied through filters for a few minutes vs. standing in the fumes directly for hours.
0xdecaff 14y ago
They have fume extractor fans in the tunnels. If they aren't on, CO poisoning for everyone.
- ghshephard 14y ago
  One would hope that the "fail safe" scenario for fume extractor fans would be "Blow at full speed"
  - redthrowaway 14y ago
    Or, indeed, that they wouldn't be linked to the traffic light system in the first place.
bootload 14y ago
"... I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic light being out. ..." There are reports in the local press of these kinds of problems: "CityLink says it closed the tunnels because the IT problem affected incident detection and safety systems that are activated in the case of an accident. The network problem also affected the back-up system." ~ http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/melbourne-tunnels-closed-after-glitch/story-e6frf7kf-1226487024461 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/melbourne-tun... And references are being made about inability to communicate to remote devices via the network, "lost the ability to communicate" with its incident detection and safety systems." ~ http://www.itnews.com.au/News/317694,citylink-glitch-shuts-melbourne-tunnels.aspx http://www.itnews.com.au/News/317694,citylink-glitch-shuts-m...

vacri 14y ago

It's more like 20km of traffic lights being out. These roads are our core east-west arterial roads and the landscape dictates that there aren't many other roads for the traffic to travel on. I can't say why there aren't traffic police out there, but these are once-public roads that have been privatised. Also, these roads are highways, not traffic intersections. Point of trivia: before the current toll road company was given its mandate, our main east-west bridge (the Westgate) held the distinction of being one of the very few toll roads in the world that stopped being tolled when planned, when the cost was paid off. A few years of free travel, then this company was given the rights to the road just beyond the bridge...

DrStalker 14y ago
It's not traffic light out, it's traffic lights out and if there is a problem everyone will die because none of the safety system are working.
jeza 14y ago
It is the only uninterrupted motorway from the east to west sides of Melbourne, but not the only core arterial. There are other roads you can use to get from one side of town to the other. A lot of traffic using the tunnels is just commuter traffic from the east anyway. The tunnels never were public roads, they didn't exist. You can still drive on pretty much the entire length of the West Gate Freeway, right up to the tunnel portals without paying tolls. There are some short sections of motorway though that were previously un-tolled but are now tolled, though there has been some pretty extensive upgrades. That said I'm no way in favour of City Link, but the real core 'arterial' for urban commuting is our public transport system. :-)
- vacri 14y ago
  Fair enough. I'm in the north, and the old Tulla freeway was definitely free all the way in, and now it's tolled, so that may be colouring my memory.

caf 14y ago

The ABC has an article with a quote that explains it better (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-cause-traffic-chaos/4292378 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-03/tunnel-closures-cause-...): CityLink spokeswoman Kate Murphy says the tunnels had to close as a precaution. "It's not just overhead signs [that are not working], it's also our safety systems as well," she said. "For example, in the tunnels the deluge systems or the smoke extraction systems which we may use in an emergency, we can't actually operate those as well, which is why we've had to take the dramatic measure of actually closing the tunnels."

DrStalker 14y ago
I had to hunt the article to find that, since the first impression is just speed limit signs/traffic lights being out which is not major. (and plenty of posts here suggest other people thought the same thing) The variable speed signs always have extra signs along the lines of "(80) if variable limit sign is disabled" as a fallback. Not being able to handle leaks, fume buildup, fires and other emergency conditions is a completely different story.
rurounijones 14y ago
The fact that their safety systems (Which anyone would expect to be separate from the traffic control systems) are also affected makes me wonder about the "computer glitch" angle.
- batgaijin 14y ago
  Hmm... actually yeah that is a really good point. As much as I don't want to sound like a conspiracy person, that level of connection between those components is a bit too much to believe. Especially in Australia where they have insanely high standards for construction/electrical engineering.
- Zenst 14y ago
  Like 99% of news reported computere glitch's it is some human mess up that caused it, either by design or error or a homer moment were somebody pressed the wrong button. Could even be somebody overloading the electrical phases in the datacentre and tripped the UPS into action for it to barth at the imbalance (seen that one). This is why they say computer glitch and count on the majority of non technical people to not question it.

lessnonymous 14y ago

(Ignoring all the safety stuff in other replies) These are tunnels over 3km long. You can't have cops down there without breathing apparatus - even if the extractors were safely operating.

ghshephard 14y ago
Why would it be safe for people driving vehicles, but not for police officers?
- DrStalker 14y ago
  In a vaguely sealed container with air being supplied through filters for a few minutes vs. standing in the fumes directly for hours.

0xdecaff 14y ago

They have fume extractor fans in the tunnels. If they aren't on, CO poisoning for everyone.

ghshephard 14y ago
One would hope that the "fail safe" scenario for fume extractor fans would be "Blow at full speed"
- redthrowaway 14y ago
  Or, indeed, that they wouldn't be linked to the traffic light system in the first place.

bootload 14y ago

"... I'm having a really hard time seeing how this is any different than a traffic light being out. ..." There are reports in the local press of these kinds of problems: "CityLink says it closed the tunnels because the IT problem affected incident detection and safety systems that are activated in the case of an accident. The network problem also affected the back-up system." ~ http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/melbourne-tunnels-closed-after-glitch/story-e6frf7kf-1226487024461 http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/melbourne-tun... And references are being made about inability to communicate to remote devices via the network, "lost the ability to communicate" with its incident detection and safety systems." ~ http://www.itnews.com.au/News/317694,citylink-glitch-shuts-melbourne-tunnels.aspx http://www.itnews.com.au/News/317694,citylink-glitch-shuts-m...