4 ms·

Not sure about the past tense here. .NET is still excellent and getting even better with every release. What instability are you talking about? There was the le

Not sure about the past tense here. .NET is still excellent and getting even better with every release. What instability are you talking about? There was the leap to .NET Core which was majorly breaking, but that was almost 10 years ago now.

frank_nitti 11mo ago
If they’re in a team similar to some I’ve worked with, engineers are barely getting comfortable with the shift away from .NET Framework (!) There are legions of developers for whom Visual Studio on Windows is the only place they have ever been comfortable. And upgrading between versions of .NET is a point-click exercise between the various UIs (Visual Studio Installer, “Get New Components or Features”, and the NuGet package manager) The advent of .NET Core happened to coincide with initiatives to adapt: * toward the cloud and away from IIS and Windows Server * toward Git and away from TFS * toward remote CI/CD and away from “drag my files into inetpub” * toward SPAs and away from ASP.NET XAML programming (Blazor notwithstanding) * toward a broader toolkit where the familiarity with OSS and open specs is advantageous, and away from Visual Studio as the center of the universe (though it still arguably reigns supreme in its class of IDEs) Coming from the Linux/Docker world before going deep in .NET, I was both resented and leaned on heavily for these teams’ transitions. Most of my teammates had never read the contents of their .csproj or .sln files, or run a build command from a terminal and read its log output. They were annoyed by my requests to do so when helping them troubleshoot; some just rejected the idea outright (“there’s no need to look at VS internals here”, “we shouldn’t need to run DOS commands in today’s world, VS should hable this!”) I can definitely sympathize with developers who were sold on what seemed like a promise that deep VS/IIS/etc knowledge would be the rock-solid foundation for business software for the rest of their careers. During the uprooting process, other promises like “netstandard2.0 will be forever for your core libraries and all future .NET runtimes!” end up with asterisks the following year. I am 100% in agreement that .NET dev team is doing an amazing job, but it’s precisely because of their continued shakeups when they see major opportunities to improve it from the ground up, and probably the same reason that others feel wary of it
- jve 11mo ago
  Thanks for making me feel like a 10x dev :) Anyways, I work with .NET Framework and .NET. Being a developer is a joy where you can learn daily new tricks and satisfy your curiosity. So to me this reads so alien that people fail to learn new tricks within .NET world. For me it's like a stream of amazement: Ohh, this is so much better with new language features. Ohh, this code is so much more clean. Woa, logging is so simple with ILogger and I can plug whatever underlying log engine I want! Configuration via JSON files, niice. I can override with Env variables out of the box? Amazing. This all follows particular rules and patterns. Ohh, I can customize the way I read configuration any way I want if I need it so. Ohh, I can build and run from CLI using simple commands! Ohh, I can package in docker and run on Linux. Oh, wow, .csproj is so much more clean, gotta use SDK-style project for my .NET Framework projects too!
  - frank_nitti 11mo ago
    I love it! And yeah .NET Framework is still critical for some workloads, most notably C++/CLI and WCF for certain apps where deep win32 APIs make their net8.0+ alternatives too much of a headache :) To temper my comment, the resistance I faced as the new guy brought in to modernize is natural for these engineers who knew their tools and systems well, in their defense. Eventually they warmed up from full pushback to friendly banter “Mr. Linux and command line over here” and accepted that running my little scripts helped address the confusion/frustration of Visual Studio disagreeing with Jenkins/GitHub Actions automations and runtime behavior in Kubernetes.
  - tracker1 11mo ago
    Funny... I actually kind of hate ILogger... at least the output implementations I've seen. I really like line-delimited JSON for standard logging with a pretty-printed version for local dev. With say a node project, I will usually attach a few bits of context as well as a details object with the simple log message... this is easy enough to ship to another system, or say with AWS, the built in logging platform handles it brilliantly. I haven't seen a good logger implementation for .Net that does a similar good job without a bunch of byzantine configurations.
- 11mo ago

frank_nitti 11mo ago

If they’re in a team similar to some I’ve worked with, engineers are barely getting comfortable with the shift away from .NET Framework (!) There are legions of developers for whom Visual Studio on Windows is the only place they have ever been comfortable. And upgrading between versions of .NET is a point-click exercise between the various UIs (Visual Studio Installer, “Get New Components or Features”, and the NuGet package manager) The advent of .NET Core happened to coincide with initiatives to adapt: * toward the cloud and away from IIS and Windows Server * toward Git and away from TFS * toward remote CI/CD and away from “drag my files into inetpub” * toward SPAs and away from ASP.NET XAML programming (Blazor notwithstanding) * toward a broader toolkit where the familiarity with OSS and open specs is advantageous, and away from Visual Studio as the center of the universe (though it still arguably reigns supreme in its class of IDEs) Coming from the Linux/Docker world before going deep in .NET, I was both resented and leaned on heavily for these teams’ transitions. Most of my teammates had never read the contents of their .csproj or .sln files, or run a build command from a terminal and read its log output. They were annoyed by my requests to do so when helping them troubleshoot; some just rejected the idea outright (“there’s no need to look at VS internals here”, “we shouldn’t need to run DOS commands in today’s world, VS should hable this!”) I can definitely sympathize with developers who were sold on what seemed like a promise that deep VS/IIS/etc knowledge would be the rock-solid foundation for business software for the rest of their careers. During the uprooting process, other promises like “netstandard2.0 will be forever for your core libraries and all future .NET runtimes!” end up with asterisks the following year. I am 100% in agreement that .NET dev team is doing an amazing job, but it’s precisely because of their continued shakeups when they see major opportunities to improve it from the ground up, and probably the same reason that others feel wary of it

jve 11mo ago
Thanks for making me feel like a 10x dev :) Anyways, I work with .NET Framework and .NET. Being a developer is a joy where you can learn daily new tricks and satisfy your curiosity. So to me this reads so alien that people fail to learn new tricks within .NET world. For me it's like a stream of amazement: Ohh, this is so much better with new language features. Ohh, this code is so much more clean. Woa, logging is so simple with ILogger and I can plug whatever underlying log engine I want! Configuration via JSON files, niice. I can override with Env variables out of the box? Amazing. This all follows particular rules and patterns. Ohh, I can customize the way I read configuration any way I want if I need it so. Ohh, I can build and run from CLI using simple commands! Ohh, I can package in docker and run on Linux. Oh, wow, .csproj is so much more clean, gotta use SDK-style project for my .NET Framework projects too!
- frank_nitti 11mo ago
  I love it! And yeah .NET Framework is still critical for some workloads, most notably C++/CLI and WCF for certain apps where deep win32 APIs make their net8.0+ alternatives too much of a headache :) To temper my comment, the resistance I faced as the new guy brought in to modernize is natural for these engineers who knew their tools and systems well, in their defense. Eventually they warmed up from full pushback to friendly banter “Mr. Linux and command line over here” and accepted that running my little scripts helped address the confusion/frustration of Visual Studio disagreeing with Jenkins/GitHub Actions automations and runtime behavior in Kubernetes.
- tracker1 11mo ago
  Funny... I actually kind of hate ILogger... at least the output implementations I've seen. I really like line-delimited JSON for standard logging with a pretty-printed version for local dev. With say a node project, I will usually attach a few bits of context as well as a details object with the simple log message... this is easy enough to ship to another system, or say with AWS, the built in logging platform handles it brilliantly. I haven't seen a good logger implementation for .Net that does a similar good job without a bunch of byzantine configurations.
11mo ago