3 ms·

> BLAKE3 isn’t a reduced-round tweak of BLAKE2 <...> It's a different construction My initial argument was meant to highlight the difference between BLAKE and

> BLAKE3 isn’t a reduced-round tweak of BLAKE2 <...> It's a different construction My initial argument was meant to highlight the difference between BLAKE and its successors. However, I have no idea what you back your statements with, BLAKE3 in fact _is_ BLAKE2s with reduced round + tree-based structure on top of it. The authors even directly mention it in the spec. > K12 and TurboSHAKE on the other hand are literally the same permutation with fewer rounds It's true for TurboSHAKE, but as for K12, it builds a tree-based structure on top of TurboSHAKE by the virtue of Sakura encoding (similar to what Bao encoding is used for in BLAKE3). IANAC, so I won't make any claims about cryptographical strengths of the functions.

oconnor663 10mo ago
> similar to what Bao encoding is used for in BLAKE3 In my mind Sakura and Bao are doing very different things. Sakura is a general framework for defining sound hash functions, while Bao is a BLAKE3-specific interleaving of hash function input and output that let's you do partial/streaming verification. There was an interesting issue where it turned out that the Sakura security properties (which I studied while I was working on Bao, very helpful) weren't sufficient for what Bao wanted to do. I didn't realize that until a couple colleagues pointed it out years later. Luckily it didn't turn out to be a break in practice: https://github.com/oconnor663/bao/issues/41 https://github.com/oconnor663/bao/issues/41