3 ms·

Is there a 'teaching the test' element to this? Does more exposure to education increase your ability to take a standardized test?

by ortusdux 11mo ago

DrewRWx 11mo ago
More exposure to upper middle-class culture increases ones ability to take IQ tests.
- PunchyHamster 11mo ago
  I don't think golf and tennis increases IQ
  - morshu9001 11mo ago
    Gluten reduces IQ (jk)
    - tptacek 11mo ago
      Lots of good reason to believe nutrition does.
  - kulahan 11mo ago
    He's saying that low-class culture does not include quality education or quality influencers. Note that I'm not using influencer in the traditional sense here; I'm referring to anyone - dads, friends, acquaintances - who influences the child.
    - DrewRWx 11mo ago
      What I'm saying is that IQ tests specifically contain questions on esoteric matters that either don't matter or can't be accessed below a certain income.
      - tptacek 11mo ago
        I don't think this is true. It's an anti-goal of "modern" IQ tests (with a generous definition of "modern").
tptacek 11mo ago
We don't know.
- nitwit005 11mo ago
  We do know that practice taking tests makes you better at taking tests. Kids get tutored in that manner every day, and it works.
  - tptacek 11mo ago
    Sorry, you're right, I was reading "standardized test" as a rhetorical claim about IQ tests in particular. (I also believe those are trainable, but I'm much less certain of the science).
- powerclue 11mo ago
  We do know that response to difficulty influences performance in iq testing: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990577/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990577/ This study found that adding or removing rewards for performing well can pretty dramatically impact performance. "it is unclear to what extent the positive manifold reported in intelligence research since Spearman (1904) might be explained not through a shared component of intellectual capacity, but through a shared component of effort or time investment in testing tasks." So, yes, we don't know, but the ways we don't know should also include "we don't know if iq testing is even measuring intelligence rather than stick-to-it-ness".
  - tptacek 11mo ago
    I mean I agree with that too! I would just bucket all this under "we don't know". :)
burnt-resistor 11mo ago
Define "more exposure to education". ;) Also, NCBLA standardized testing has demonstrably ruined education in America.
- WillPostForFood 11mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Children%27s_Book_and_Literacy_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Children%27s_Book_and...
  - burnt-resistor 11mo ago
    NCLBA I'm dyslexic, sue me and crucify me, your majesty.
NewEntryHN 11mo ago
Of course. IQ tests measures nothing more than the ability to pass an IQ test, which is proxied by a lot of things such as western culture, education, propensity to cram tests, etc.
- naasking 11mo ago
  > IQ tests measures nothing more than the ability to pass an IQ test Incorrect, IQ is a composite measure correlated with fluid reasoning, crystallized knowledge, working memory, processing speed, and spatial ability. It's true that you can't naively use IQ to compare two diverse groups, but you can correct for this with a large enough sample of any two groups. This idea that it's biased towards western culture or education is vastly overblown.

Is there a 'teaching the test' element to this? Does more exposure to education increase your ability to take a standardized test?

DrewRWx 11mo ago

More exposure to upper middle-class culture increases ones ability to take IQ tests.

PunchyHamster 11mo ago
I don't think golf and tennis increases IQ
- morshu9001 11mo ago
  Gluten reduces IQ (jk)
  - tptacek 11mo ago
    Lots of good reason to believe nutrition does.
- kulahan 11mo ago
  He's saying that low-class culture does not include quality education or quality influencers. Note that I'm not using influencer in the traditional sense here; I'm referring to anyone - dads, friends, acquaintances - who influences the child.
  - DrewRWx 11mo ago
    What I'm saying is that IQ tests specifically contain questions on esoteric matters that either don't matter or can't be accessed below a certain income.
    - tptacek 11mo ago
      I don't think this is true. It's an anti-goal of "modern" IQ tests (with a generous definition of "modern").

tptacek 11mo ago

We don't know.

nitwit005 11mo ago
We do know that practice taking tests makes you better at taking tests. Kids get tutored in that manner every day, and it works.
- tptacek 11mo ago
  Sorry, you're right, I was reading "standardized test" as a rhetorical claim about IQ tests in particular. (I also believe those are trainable, but I'm much less certain of the science).
powerclue 11mo ago
We do know that response to difficulty influences performance in iq testing: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990577/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990577/ This study found that adding or removing rewards for performing well can pretty dramatically impact performance. "it is unclear to what extent the positive manifold reported in intelligence research since Spearman (1904) might be explained not through a shared component of intellectual capacity, but through a shared component of effort or time investment in testing tasks." So, yes, we don't know, but the ways we don't know should also include "we don't know if iq testing is even measuring intelligence rather than stick-to-it-ness".
- tptacek 11mo ago
  I mean I agree with that too! I would just bucket all this under "we don't know". :)

burnt-resistor 11mo ago

Define "more exposure to education". ;) Also, NCBLA standardized testing has demonstrably ruined education in America.

WillPostForFood 11mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Children%27s_Book_and_Literacy_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Children%27s_Book_and...
- burnt-resistor 11mo ago
  NCLBA I'm dyslexic, sue me and crucify me, your majesty.

NewEntryHN 11mo ago

Of course. IQ tests measures nothing more than the ability to pass an IQ test, which is proxied by a lot of things such as western culture, education, propensity to cram tests, etc.

naasking 11mo ago
> IQ tests measures nothing more than the ability to pass an IQ test Incorrect, IQ is a composite measure correlated with fluid reasoning, crystallized knowledge, working memory, processing speed, and spatial ability. It's true that you can't naively use IQ to compare two diverse groups, but you can correct for this with a large enough sample of any two groups. This idea that it's biased towards western culture or education is vastly overblown.