6 ms·

Contrary to the claim of the article, $1 billion to get samples from the Earth's mantle does not sound particularly expensive. Especially if compared to all th

Contrary to the claim of the article, $1 billion to get samples from the Earth's mantle does not sound particularly expensive. Especially if compared to all the other things that we nowadays spend billions on, and where the long-term benefit is much less clear.

samstave 14y ago
We should have mandates that deep drilling for oil should carry a requirement to assist in some of this research. "Want mining/mineral rights? Then you must provide this [data] as a part of allowance for access"
- jofer 14y ago
  To be fair, they (the oil industry) already developed pretty much _all_ of the technology in question. Scientific drilling just applies the oil industry's methods to academic projects. (There are a few exceptions, particularly with regards to coring.) Furthermore, the companies that provide the expertise in question are the service companies (e.g. Schlumberger, Halliburton, etc), not the companies that are directly in search of oil.
  - samstave 14y ago
    We are in agreement and I understand, my point; I am tired of the outright corruption in all industries and the massive profit and exploitation of the oil companies. I as a citizen demand that the representatives in government require a "benficial tax" on all commercial endeavors: the big corporations are not paying financial taxes, then they must begin to pay a beneficial tax to society. This is a tax on research requirements, innovation, infrastructure and other methods of physical payment that are immune to loopholes.
    - justincormack 14y ago
      You know that most oil is now produced by government owned companies? Look at China Norway Venezuela Russia Saudi Arabia etc...
      - samstave 14y ago
        I don't live in any of those countries. I live in the US where oil barons become presidents, oil companies can ruin vast seas and dump billions of gallons of oil into the oceans for months without hardly any repercussions, and lobbiests have more voice than sanity. I live in a country where for the last 10 years I have watch oil defense and banking interests have trumped all else and destroyed any and all faith I once held in my government.
        pc86 14y ago
        I believe you're lost. This is HN, not ThinkProgress.
        samstave 14y ago
        :) Ill choose to rage on whichever form page happens to be an open tab at the time.
sylvinus 14y ago
Do we know where the funding is coming from?
- veemjeem 14y ago
  I'm guessing much of the funding comes from the Japanese government. They funded the Chikyu project which resulted in a deep drilling robot they plan to reuse.
  - jofer 14y ago
    The Chikyu is a (very large) riser drilling ship, not a robot. Other than that, dead on. The Chikyu was more or less built to drill the "mohole", and the Japenese government has been fairly set on it. However, it would almost definitely be a part of IODP (the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program), so the US would play a role in funding it, as well.
CountHackulus 14y ago
Considering that the unit cost for a B2 bomber was $737M (a little over $1B with inflation), I'd say that this is a steal. Just think of things in recent days that have reached the $1B level. For this kind of science? I'd say we'd be stupid NOT to pay for it.
- tjmc 14y ago
  Agreed. Learning how to drill to effectively unlimited geothermal power reservoirs can't be a bad thing.
  - DeepDuh 14y ago
    Famous last words.
  - jerf 14y ago
    We don't fail to drill more geothermals because we are incapable of it, we don't do it because the cost/benefit ratio isn't favorable in most places. Since this isn't about advancing technology, but applying what we already have to this task, this project isn't going to change that. There's all kinds of things that are possible, but not profitable. And especially when it comes to energy, "profitable" isn't just about money; putting in 2 Joules to create the ability to generate 1 isn't economically practical any more than a company that burns 2 dollars to make 1 is.
  - jofer 14y ago
    We already know how to drill them. It's how to keep producing heat out of them that's the problem. You need to circulate fluid _through_ a large volume of the rock, not just down the borehole. That means you need to create permeability (i.e. fracking. See "enhanced geothermal".) or find permeability at the depths required (i.e. find a reservoir). There are other problems, but the oil industry already developed most of the technology for other things. They've just decided that geothermal is a poor return on investment (in most cases) compared with producing and selling hydrocarbons. On the other hand, the world's largest geothermal energy producer is an oil company.
- Retric 14y ago
nancyhua 14y ago
Agreed. Although how many of these projects actually get done for the amount allotted? Maybe it'll end up costing 100B or not get done at all after spending 10B. Whenever anything costs more than like 1M, we get scope insensitivity and have no idea what we are paying for or what it's costing.
josteink 14y ago
Especially if compared to all the other things that we nowadays spend billions on According to Apple, putting rounded corners on things with touch-screens will cost you a billion. So yeah.
d0ugal 14y ago
Yeah, its just like one instagram.
dtby 14y ago
Where is your $1B?

samstave 14y ago

We should have mandates that deep drilling for oil should carry a requirement to assist in some of this research. "Want mining/mineral rights? Then you must provide this [data] as a part of allowance for access"

jofer 14y ago
To be fair, they (the oil industry) already developed pretty much _all_ of the technology in question. Scientific drilling just applies the oil industry's methods to academic projects. (There are a few exceptions, particularly with regards to coring.) Furthermore, the companies that provide the expertise in question are the service companies (e.g. Schlumberger, Halliburton, etc), not the companies that are directly in search of oil.
- samstave 14y ago
  We are in agreement and I understand, my point; I am tired of the outright corruption in all industries and the massive profit and exploitation of the oil companies. I as a citizen demand that the representatives in government require a "benficial tax" on all commercial endeavors: the big corporations are not paying financial taxes, then they must begin to pay a beneficial tax to society. This is a tax on research requirements, innovation, infrastructure and other methods of physical payment that are immune to loopholes.
  - justincormack 14y ago
    You know that most oil is now produced by government owned companies? Look at China Norway Venezuela Russia Saudi Arabia etc...
    - samstave 14y ago
      I don't live in any of those countries. I live in the US where oil barons become presidents, oil companies can ruin vast seas and dump billions of gallons of oil into the oceans for months without hardly any repercussions, and lobbiests have more voice than sanity. I live in a country where for the last 10 years I have watch oil defense and banking interests have trumped all else and destroyed any and all faith I once held in my government.
      - pc86 14y ago
        I believe you're lost. This is HN, not ThinkProgress.
        samstave 14y ago
        :) Ill choose to rage on whichever form page happens to be an open tab at the time.

sylvinus 14y ago

Do we know where the funding is coming from?

veemjeem 14y ago
I'm guessing much of the funding comes from the Japanese government. They funded the Chikyu project which resulted in a deep drilling robot they plan to reuse.
- jofer 14y ago
  The Chikyu is a (very large) riser drilling ship, not a robot. Other than that, dead on. The Chikyu was more or less built to drill the "mohole", and the Japenese government has been fairly set on it. However, it would almost definitely be a part of IODP (the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program), so the US would play a role in funding it, as well.

CountHackulus 14y ago

Considering that the unit cost for a B2 bomber was $737M (a little over $1B with inflation), I'd say that this is a steal. Just think of things in recent days that have reached the $1B level. For this kind of science? I'd say we'd be stupid NOT to pay for it.

tjmc 14y ago
Agreed. Learning how to drill to effectively unlimited geothermal power reservoirs can't be a bad thing.
- DeepDuh 14y ago
  Famous last words.
- jerf 14y ago
  We don't fail to drill more geothermals because we are incapable of it, we don't do it because the cost/benefit ratio isn't favorable in most places. Since this isn't about advancing technology, but applying what we already have to this task, this project isn't going to change that. There's all kinds of things that are possible, but not profitable. And especially when it comes to energy, "profitable" isn't just about money; putting in 2 Joules to create the ability to generate 1 isn't economically practical any more than a company that burns 2 dollars to make 1 is.
- jofer 14y ago
  We already know how to drill them. It's how to keep producing heat out of them that's the problem. You need to circulate fluid _through_ a large volume of the rock, not just down the borehole. That means you need to create permeability (i.e. fracking. See "enhanced geothermal".) or find permeability at the depths required (i.e. find a reservoir). There are other problems, but the oil industry already developed most of the technology for other things. They've just decided that geothermal is a poor return on investment (in most cases) compared with producing and selling hydrocarbons. On the other hand, the world's largest geothermal energy producer is an oil company.
Retric 14y ago

nancyhua 14y ago

Agreed. Although how many of these projects actually get done for the amount allotted? Maybe it'll end up costing 100B or not get done at all after spending 10B. Whenever anything costs more than like 1M, we get scope insensitivity and have no idea what we are paying for or what it's costing.

josteink 14y ago

Especially if compared to all the other things that we nowadays spend billions on According to Apple, putting rounded corners on things with touch-screens will cost you a billion. So yeah.

d0ugal 14y ago

Yeah, its just like one instagram.

dtby 14y ago

Where is your $1B?