5 ms·

> The sycophantic and unchallenging behaviours of chatbots leaves a person unconditioned for human interactions. To be honest, the alternative for a good chunk

by creata 10mo ago

> The sycophantic and unchallenging behaviours of chatbots leaves a person unconditioned for human interactions. To be honest, the alternative for a good chunk of these users is no interaction at all, and that sort of isolation doesn't prepare you for human interaction either.

Guvante 10mo ago
Wouldn't they be seeking a romantic relationship otherwise? Using AI to fulfill a need implies a need which usually results in action towards that need. Even "the dating scene is terrible" is human interaction.
- DocTomoe 10mo ago
  We do see - from 'crazy cat lady' to 'incel', from 'where have all the good men gone' to the rapid decline of the numbers of 25-year-olds who have had sexual experiences, not to mention from the 'loneliness epidemic' that has several governments, especially in Europe, alarmed enough to make it an agenda pointt: No, they would not. Not all of them. Not even a majority. AI in these cases is just a better 'litter of 50 cats', a better, less-destructive, less-suffering-creating fantasy.
- im3w1l 10mo ago
  Swiping on thousands of people without getting a single date is not human interaction and that's the reality for some people. I still don't think an AI partner is a good solution, but you are seriously underestimating how bad the status quo is.
  - bakugo 10mo ago
    > Swiping on thousands of people without getting a single date is not human interaction and that's the reality for some people. For some people, yes, but 99% of those people are men. The whole "women with AI boyfriends" thing is an entirely different issue.
    - im3w1l 10mo ago
      Despite the name, the subreddit community has both men and women and both ai boyfriends and ai girlfriends.
      - bakugo 10mo ago
        I looked through a bunch of posts on the front page (and almost died from cringe in the process) and basically every one of them was a woman with an AI "boyfriend".
        im3w1l 10mo ago
        Interesting. I guess it's changed a lot since I looked at it last time. I remember it being about 50/50.
    - ragequittah 10mo ago
      If you have 100 men to 100 women on an imaginary tinder platform and most of the men get rejected by all 100 women it's easy to see where the problem would arise for women too.
      - bakugo 10mo ago
        In real dating apps, the ratio is never 1:1, there's always way more men. The "problem" will arise anyway, of course, but as I said, it's a different problem - the women aren't struggling to find dates, they're just choosing not to date the men they find. Even classifying it as a "problem" is arguable.
        BeFlatXIII 10mo ago
        What else do you expect them to do if none of the choices are worthwhile?
        bakugo 10mo ago
        Maybe lower their standards to the point that they can be satisfied by a real person, not a text completion algorithm that literally worships the ground they walk on and outputs some of the cheesiest, cringiest text I've ever read.
- Telaneo 10mo ago
  > Even "the dating scene is terrible" is human interaction. For some subset of people, this isn't true. Some people don't end up going on a single date or get a single match. And even for those who get a non-zero number there, that number might still be hovering around 1-2 matches a year and no actual dates.
  - Guvante 10mo ago
    Are we talking people trying to date or "trying to date"? I am not even talking dates BTW but the pre-cursors to dates. If you bring up Tinder etc then I would point out that AI has been doing bad things for quite a while obviously.
    - Telaneo 10mo ago
      > Are we talking people trying to date or "trying to date"? The former. The latter I find is naught more than a buzz word used to shut down people who complain about a very real problem. > If you bring up Tinder etc then I would point out that AI has been doing bad things for quite a while obviously. Clearly. But we've also been cornered into Tinder and other dating apps being one of very few social arenas where you can reasonably expect dating to actually happen.[1] There's also friend circles and other similar close social circles, but once you've exhausted those options, assuming no other possibilities reveal themselves, what else is there? There's uni or collage, but if you're past that time of your life, tough shit I guess. There's work, but people tend to have the sense to not let their love life and their work mix. You could hook up after someone changes jobs, but that's not something that happens every day. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1908630116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1908630116
- intended 10mo ago
  In this framing “any” human interaction is good interaction. This is true if the alternative to “any interaction” is “no interaction”. Bots alter this, and provide “good interaction”. In this light, the case for relationship bots is quite strong.
- BeFlatXIII 10mo ago
  Not all human interaction is a net positive in the end.
koolba 10mo ago
> To be honest, the alternative for a good chunk of these users is no interaction at all, and that sort of isolation doesn't prepare you for human interaction either. This sounds like an argument in favor of safe injection sites for heroin users.
- jacquesm 10mo ago
  Given that those tend to have positive effects for the societies that practice this is that what you wanted to say?
- batiudrami 10mo ago
  Hey hey safe injecting rooms have real harm minimisation impacts. Not convinced you can say the same for chatbot boyfriends.
- komali2 10mo ago
  That's exactly right, and that's fine. Our society is unwilling to take the steps necessary to end the root cause of drug abuse epidemics (privatization of healthcare industry, lack of social safety net, war on drugs), so localities have to do harm reduction in immediately actionable ways. So too is our society unable to do what's necessary to reduce the startling alienation happening (halt suburban hyperspread, reduce working hours to give more leisure time, give workers ownership of the means of production so as to eliminate alienation from labor), so, ai girlfriends and boyfriends for the lonely NEETs. Bonus, maybe it'll reduce school shootings.
  - ptsneves 10mo ago
    Seeing society as responsible for drug abuse issues, of their many varieties, is very Rousseau.
    - komali2 10mo ago
      Rousseau and Hobbes were just two dudes. I'd wager neither of them cracked the code entirely. To claim that addicts have no responsibility for their addiction is as absurd as the idea that individual humans can be fully identified separate from the society that raised them or that they live in.
Gud 10mo ago
Why would that be the alternative?

by creata 10mo ago

Guvante 10mo ago

Wouldn't they be seeking a romantic relationship otherwise? Using AI to fulfill a need implies a need which usually results in action towards that need. Even "the dating scene is terrible" is human interaction.

DocTomoe 10mo ago
We do see - from 'crazy cat lady' to 'incel', from 'where have all the good men gone' to the rapid decline of the numbers of 25-year-olds who have had sexual experiences, not to mention from the 'loneliness epidemic' that has several governments, especially in Europe, alarmed enough to make it an agenda pointt: No, they would not. Not all of them. Not even a majority. AI in these cases is just a better 'litter of 50 cats', a better, less-destructive, less-suffering-creating fantasy.
im3w1l 10mo ago
Swiping on thousands of people without getting a single date is not human interaction and that's the reality for some people. I still don't think an AI partner is a good solution, but you are seriously underestimating how bad the status quo is.
- bakugo 10mo ago
  > Swiping on thousands of people without getting a single date is not human interaction and that's the reality for some people. For some people, yes, but 99% of those people are men. The whole "women with AI boyfriends" thing is an entirely different issue.
  - im3w1l 10mo ago
    Despite the name, the subreddit community has both men and women and both ai boyfriends and ai girlfriends.
    - bakugo 10mo ago
      I looked through a bunch of posts on the front page (and almost died from cringe in the process) and basically every one of them was a woman with an AI "boyfriend".
      - im3w1l 10mo ago
        Interesting. I guess it's changed a lot since I looked at it last time. I remember it being about 50/50.
  - ragequittah 10mo ago
    If you have 100 men to 100 women on an imaginary tinder platform and most of the men get rejected by all 100 women it's easy to see where the problem would arise for women too.
    - bakugo 10mo ago
      In real dating apps, the ratio is never 1:1, there's always way more men. The "problem" will arise anyway, of course, but as I said, it's a different problem - the women aren't struggling to find dates, they're just choosing not to date the men they find. Even classifying it as a "problem" is arguable.
      - BeFlatXIII 10mo ago
        What else do you expect them to do if none of the choices are worthwhile?
        bakugo 10mo ago
        Maybe lower their standards to the point that they can be satisfied by a real person, not a text completion algorithm that literally worships the ground they walk on and outputs some of the cheesiest, cringiest text I've ever read.
Telaneo 10mo ago
> Even "the dating scene is terrible" is human interaction. For some subset of people, this isn't true. Some people don't end up going on a single date or get a single match. And even for those who get a non-zero number there, that number might still be hovering around 1-2 matches a year and no actual dates.
- Guvante 10mo ago
  Are we talking people trying to date or "trying to date"? I am not even talking dates BTW but the pre-cursors to dates. If you bring up Tinder etc then I would point out that AI has been doing bad things for quite a while obviously.
  - Telaneo 10mo ago
    > Are we talking people trying to date or "trying to date"? The former. The latter I find is naught more than a buzz word used to shut down people who complain about a very real problem. > If you bring up Tinder etc then I would point out that AI has been doing bad things for quite a while obviously. Clearly. But we've also been cornered into Tinder and other dating apps being one of very few social arenas where you can reasonably expect dating to actually happen.[1] There's also friend circles and other similar close social circles, but once you've exhausted those options, assuming no other possibilities reveal themselves, what else is there? There's uni or collage, but if you're past that time of your life, tough shit I guess. There's work, but people tend to have the sense to not let their love life and their work mix. You could hook up after someone changes jobs, but that's not something that happens every day. [1] https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1908630116 https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1908630116
intended 10mo ago
In this framing “any” human interaction is good interaction. This is true if the alternative to “any interaction” is “no interaction”. Bots alter this, and provide “good interaction”. In this light, the case for relationship bots is quite strong.
BeFlatXIII 10mo ago
Not all human interaction is a net positive in the end.

koolba 10mo ago

> To be honest, the alternative for a good chunk of these users is no interaction at all, and that sort of isolation doesn't prepare you for human interaction either. This sounds like an argument in favor of safe injection sites for heroin users.

jacquesm 10mo ago
Given that those tend to have positive effects for the societies that practice this is that what you wanted to say?
batiudrami 10mo ago
Hey hey safe injecting rooms have real harm minimisation impacts. Not convinced you can say the same for chatbot boyfriends.
komali2 10mo ago
That's exactly right, and that's fine. Our society is unwilling to take the steps necessary to end the root cause of drug abuse epidemics (privatization of healthcare industry, lack of social safety net, war on drugs), so localities have to do harm reduction in immediately actionable ways. So too is our society unable to do what's necessary to reduce the startling alienation happening (halt suburban hyperspread, reduce working hours to give more leisure time, give workers ownership of the means of production so as to eliminate alienation from labor), so, ai girlfriends and boyfriends for the lonely NEETs. Bonus, maybe it'll reduce school shootings.
- ptsneves 10mo ago
  Seeing society as responsible for drug abuse issues, of their many varieties, is very Rousseau.
  - komali2 10mo ago
    Rousseau and Hobbes were just two dudes. I'd wager neither of them cracked the code entirely. To claim that addicts have no responsibility for their addiction is as absurd as the idea that individual humans can be fully identified separate from the society that raised them or that they live in.

Gud 10mo ago

Why would that be the alternative?