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I date a lot of teachers. My last one was in the San Ramon (CA) Valley School district, she makes about $90k a year at 34 years old. Talking to her basically m

I date a lot of teachers. My last one was in the San Ramon (CA) Valley School district, she makes about $90k a year at 34 years old. Talking to her basically makes me want to homeschool my kids to make sure someone like her isn't their teacher. Paying teachers more won't do ANYTHING until we become a lot more selective about who gets to become and stay a teacher. It can't be like most government jobs where getting it is like winning the lottery and knowing you can make above market money for below market performance.

michaelmrose 11mo ago
There is so much wrong with this. You cannot judge the class of teachers based on a small sample of your taste in women. You didn't actually communicate anything materially wrong with her. You listed a high income area to make us think teachers are overpaid but we have no insight by default into median income in the area or her qualifications. Lastly its entirely impossible to attract better candidates without more money its just not how the world works. For reference the median household income in san ramon is about 200k so 2 teachers would be below average. A cop with her experience in the same town makes 158k
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]
- throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
  I personally am not of the belief that anyone making under $90k a year is dumb. I believe if you were selective, you could take smart motivated people from other industries that don't pay much but still have smart employees, and have them do a great job teaching.
  - michaelmrose 11mo ago
    You are dealing with people with masters degrees in their field who you are trusting with the next generation. There is no reason to expect to find more qualified people for less money when you are starting at 45% of median household income for the area. Highly qualified individuals in other career tracks are often paid more while also lacking the relevant skills and education. Industries that are lower paid are going to be even less qualified. You attract superior talent by either paying more full stop. Why don't you ask actual teachers.
    - throwawaylaptop 10mo ago
      I do talk to actual teachers at many social events, and IMO they are a joke. Maybe it's hard to get this across in short messages. Maybe take a look at reading and math proficiency rates... And then add in the fact that many kids propping up those stats are basically part time home schooled by parents after school and on the weekend to makeup for the lacking teachers.
taurath 11mo ago
Its interesting to hear you say that you date a lot of teachers while simultaneously holding this view of their level of competence. Or just not the ones you date?
- throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
  Yes it's possible for a woman to remain single at 30, she isn't that bright. The ones that got married younger probably are a bit smarter.
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
baq 11mo ago
I guess the problem isn't only the pay, it's the opportunity cost which only a certain kind of people are willing to pay for the whole career. If you select those people out... you're left with zero candidates.
suddenlybananas 11mo ago
If teachers made as much as half the people on this site, perhaps things would be better. 90k in San Ramon is more or less the median wage [1]. It's not _that_ much money. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ramon,_California#2020_census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ramon,_California#2020_cen...
- throw45678943 11mo ago
  Who knows? Maybe with the way AI is going that will be considered a lot of money compared to what people earn on this site. As in what people generally earn on this site will crash way down and be outsourced to these models. I'm already seeing it personally from a social perspective - as a SWE most people I know (inc teachers in my circle) look at me like my days are numbered "cause of AI".
- throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
  When I said government employees make above market, I didn't mean for the general area average.. I meant for the work they do. Should a city landscape truck driver make $250k because his truck drives around a rich town? No, he should make what other people in this kind of industry make.
pessimizer 11mo ago
This is so basic that I feel I shouldn't need to say it, but you can't be selective if you don't pay. You take what you get. The reason teaching became largely a women's profession when they used to be exclusively men is because we wanted to make education universal and free so we did that by paying less, and women who needed to work also had to take what they could get. The reason it has become a moron's profession is because we have made it uniquely undesirable. If you think that teachers should be amazing and imminently qualified and infinitely safe to have around children, pay them like programmers. Instead, the middle-class meme is to pay them nothing, put them in horrible conditions, and resent them too. Typical "woman's work" model.
- wing-_-nuts 11mo ago
  >The reason teaching became largely a women's profession when they used to be exclusively men is because we wanted to make education universal and free so we did that by paying less, and women who needed to work also had to take what they could get. Do you have any source on the assertion that being a teacher used to pay more? Because to my knowledge it has never been a high paying profession.

michaelmrose 11mo ago

There is so much wrong with this. You cannot judge the class of teachers based on a small sample of your taste in women. You didn't actually communicate anything materially wrong with her. You listed a high income area to make us think teachers are overpaid but we have no insight by default into median income in the area or her qualifications. Lastly its entirely impossible to attract better candidates without more money its just not how the world works. For reference the median household income in san ramon is about 200k so 2 teachers would be below average. A cop with her experience in the same town makes 158k

deleted 11mo ago
[deleted]
throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
I personally am not of the belief that anyone making under $90k a year is dumb. I believe if you were selective, you could take smart motivated people from other industries that don't pay much but still have smart employees, and have them do a great job teaching.
- michaelmrose 11mo ago
  You are dealing with people with masters degrees in their field who you are trusting with the next generation. There is no reason to expect to find more qualified people for less money when you are starting at 45% of median household income for the area. Highly qualified individuals in other career tracks are often paid more while also lacking the relevant skills and education. Industries that are lower paid are going to be even less qualified. You attract superior talent by either paying more full stop. Why don't you ask actual teachers.
  - throwawaylaptop 10mo ago
    I do talk to actual teachers at many social events, and IMO they are a joke. Maybe it's hard to get this across in short messages. Maybe take a look at reading and math proficiency rates... And then add in the fact that many kids propping up those stats are basically part time home schooled by parents after school and on the weekend to makeup for the lacking teachers.

taurath 11mo ago

Its interesting to hear you say that you date a lot of teachers while simultaneously holding this view of their level of competence. Or just not the ones you date?

throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
Yes it's possible for a woman to remain single at 30, she isn't that bright. The ones that got married younger probably are a bit smarter.
- deleted 11mo ago
  [deleted]

baq 11mo ago

I guess the problem isn't only the pay, it's the opportunity cost which only a certain kind of people are willing to pay for the whole career. If you select those people out... you're left with zero candidates.

suddenlybananas 11mo ago

If teachers made as much as half the people on this site, perhaps things would be better. 90k in San Ramon is more or less the median wage [1]. It's not _that_ much money. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ramon,_California#2020_census https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ramon,_California#2020_cen...

throw45678943 11mo ago
Who knows? Maybe with the way AI is going that will be considered a lot of money compared to what people earn on this site. As in what people generally earn on this site will crash way down and be outsourced to these models. I'm already seeing it personally from a social perspective - as a SWE most people I know (inc teachers in my circle) look at me like my days are numbered "cause of AI".
throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
When I said government employees make above market, I didn't mean for the general area average.. I meant for the work they do. Should a city landscape truck driver make $250k because his truck drives around a rich town? No, he should make what other people in this kind of industry make.

pessimizer 11mo ago

This is so basic that I feel I shouldn't need to say it, but you can't be selective if you don't pay. You take what you get. The reason teaching became largely a women's profession when they used to be exclusively men is because we wanted to make education universal and free so we did that by paying less, and women who needed to work also had to take what they could get. The reason it has become a moron's profession is because we have made it uniquely undesirable. If you think that teachers should be amazing and imminently qualified and infinitely safe to have around children, pay them like programmers. Instead, the middle-class meme is to pay them nothing, put them in horrible conditions, and resent them too. Typical "woman's work" model.

wing-_-nuts 11mo ago
>The reason teaching became largely a women's profession when they used to be exclusively men is because we wanted to make education universal and free so we did that by paying less, and women who needed to work also had to take what they could get. Do you have any source on the assertion that being a teacher used to pay more? Because to my knowledge it has never been a high paying profession.