3 ms·

harley engines, are about low end torque, in a small form. HD would probably do good with a line of generator products if they still wanted to do business, and

by rolph 11mo ago

harley engines, are about low end torque, in a small form. HD would probably do good with a line of generator products if they still wanted to do business, and work with alternate fuels.

toomuchtodo 11mo ago
The HD brand is tied to a demographic that is dying out [1]. It’s actually a great private equity play to squeeze out what’s left of the enterprise value as Boomers slowly age out of their market. HD tried to market an electric motorcycle ("Livewire") [2], but ended up having to spin it out into its own company because HD riders are buying the HD aesthetic, not the motorcycle itself, which is simply a vehicle for said aesthetic. Livewire for younger buyers, HD for old men buying the exhaust note of a copyrighted engine that is purposely louder but less efficient. > To be fair, revenues and unit sales have enjoyed a nice bounce since the pits of the financial crisis. But Harley will never get its old mojo back for one critical reason that is completely outside of its control: demographics. > Down the road from my house in Dallas, there is greasy drive-in burger joint called Keller’s … a place I’ve been known to frequent a little more often than my doctor might recommend. On any given weekend, you might see a dozen or more bikers parked in the lot, showing off their chrome-laden Harleys. And nearly all of them are over the age of 45. Most are over 50. > This isn’t a coincidence. Harley-Davidson is a brand whose sales depend disproportionately -- almost exclusively, in fact -- on middle-aged Caucasian males. Riders younger than 40 generally lack the time, interest or the bankroll to buy a Harley. But by the time they get into their 60s or older, the noise and joint pain have begun to make riding lose its allure. You might still ride in your 60s, but you’re doing it less frequently and you probably aren’t buying a new bike. > The sweet spot is the mid-40s to early 50s. And with the Baby Boomers -- the largest and wealthiest generation in history -- now largely aged out of this key demographic bracket, Harley has a serious problem. Generation X -- my generation -- is not nearly large enough to pick up the slack, and Generation Y (aka “the Millennials” or “Echo Boomers”) are decades away from being in the demographic sweet spot for Harley, and this assumes they take to riding like their dads did. The number of American men aged 40-49 is set to decline through the early 2020s and won’t reach its old 2010 peak until 2035. > CNN Money reported on this as far back as 2010, and demographic strategist Harry Dent -- my old boss -- has used Harley as a case study for decades. [1] Blame Harley-Davidson's Downfall On Baby Boomer Demographics - https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-davidsons-downfall-baby-boomer-demographics/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-... - November 13th, 2013 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) (for context, ~2M people 55+ die every year in the US, and ~4M Boomers retire; by 2031, the US population over the age of 65 will be ~75M, almost double what it was in 2008)
- rolph 11mo ago
  what im looking at is the new niche and demographic. the engine design is well suited to drive a dynamo and power a home during outage. this would mean continued operation of engine plants, and retooling assembly plants to build backup generation devices. alternatively, sell generation ready versions of the engine to OEM generator builders.
  - toomuchtodo 11mo ago
    I think it is more likely buyers buy Powerwalls and other battery storage (Anker, EcoFlow) vs a motorcycle that can act as a generator. Their motors are not as good as Honda, Caterpillar, Cummins, Kohler, or Briggs & Stratton. They are designed to be loud, not to be good. The American motorcycle industry is facing significant headwinds, and HD is simply not positioned for success. The American Motorcycle Market Decline: What the 9.2% Drop Reveals About Consumer Sentiment - https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-decline-what-the-9-2-drop-reveals-about-consumer-sentiment/ https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-... - October 5th, 2025
    - rolph 11mo ago
      it wouldnt be about selling motorcycles, it would be a big pivot to home power generation. engine quality and serviceability would be initial point to pursue. https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-home-standby-gensets-market https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-h... https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/residential-generators-market-101024 https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/resident...
  - SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
    There’s some logic to it because the demographic that is aging out of Harleys might be also aging into backup home generators
    - mgerdts 11mo ago
      Is there a market for ridiculously loud generators?
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 11mo ago
If your gears are good then torque doesn't matter, only horsepower. A bunch of people already make generators in gasoline, diesel, and propane appetite
SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
That’s an interesting idea. I wonder how they would fare against the established engines from Honda and Briggs and Stratton or diesel alternatives. They would probably get a boost from name recognition at least.
mikestew 11mo ago
HD would probably do good with a line of generator products So, the suggestion is to pit HD against Honda in a segment that expects reliability? One doesn't buy a HD because it can be sure to start when a hurricane is coming.
- rolph 11mo ago
  ive worked with both, and never had a problem starting either in rough weather. HD engine as is requires torquedown intervals due to the harmonics, but is easier to service than Honda was.

by rolph 11mo ago

harley engines, are about low end torque, in a small form. HD would probably do good with a line of generator products if they still wanted to do business, and work with alternate fuels.

toomuchtodo 11mo ago

The HD brand is tied to a demographic that is dying out [1]. It’s actually a great private equity play to squeeze out what’s left of the enterprise value as Boomers slowly age out of their market. HD tried to market an electric motorcycle ("Livewire") [2], but ended up having to spin it out into its own company because HD riders are buying the HD aesthetic, not the motorcycle itself, which is simply a vehicle for said aesthetic. Livewire for younger buyers, HD for old men buying the exhaust note of a copyrighted engine that is purposely louder but less efficient. > To be fair, revenues and unit sales have enjoyed a nice bounce since the pits of the financial crisis. But Harley will never get its old mojo back for one critical reason that is completely outside of its control: demographics. > Down the road from my house in Dallas, there is greasy drive-in burger joint called Keller’s … a place I’ve been known to frequent a little more often than my doctor might recommend. On any given weekend, you might see a dozen or more bikers parked in the lot, showing off their chrome-laden Harleys. And nearly all of them are over the age of 45. Most are over 50. > This isn’t a coincidence. Harley-Davidson is a brand whose sales depend disproportionately -- almost exclusively, in fact -- on middle-aged Caucasian males. Riders younger than 40 generally lack the time, interest or the bankroll to buy a Harley. But by the time they get into their 60s or older, the noise and joint pain have begun to make riding lose its allure. You might still ride in your 60s, but you’re doing it less frequently and you probably aren’t buying a new bike. > The sweet spot is the mid-40s to early 50s. And with the Baby Boomers -- the largest and wealthiest generation in history -- now largely aged out of this key demographic bracket, Harley has a serious problem. Generation X -- my generation -- is not nearly large enough to pick up the slack, and Generation Y (aka “the Millennials” or “Echo Boomers”) are decades away from being in the demographic sweet spot for Harley, and this assumes they take to riding like their dads did. The number of American men aged 40-49 is set to decline through the early 2020s and won’t reach its old 2010 peak until 2035. > CNN Money reported on this as far back as 2010, and demographic strategist Harry Dent -- my old boss -- has used Harley as a case study for decades. [1] Blame Harley-Davidson's Downfall On Baby Boomer Demographics - https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-davidsons-downfall-baby-boomer-demographics/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-... - November 13th, 2013 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) (for context, ~2M people 55+ die every year in the US, and ~4M Boomers retire; by 2031, the US population over the age of 65 will be ~75M, almost double what it was in 2008)

rolph 11mo ago
what im looking at is the new niche and demographic. the engine design is well suited to drive a dynamo and power a home during outage. this would mean continued operation of engine plants, and retooling assembly plants to build backup generation devices. alternatively, sell generation ready versions of the engine to OEM generator builders.
- toomuchtodo 11mo ago
  I think it is more likely buyers buy Powerwalls and other battery storage (Anker, EcoFlow) vs a motorcycle that can act as a generator. Their motors are not as good as Honda, Caterpillar, Cummins, Kohler, or Briggs & Stratton. They are designed to be loud, not to be good. The American motorcycle industry is facing significant headwinds, and HD is simply not positioned for success. The American Motorcycle Market Decline: What the 9.2% Drop Reveals About Consumer Sentiment - https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-decline-what-the-9-2-drop-reveals-about-consumer-sentiment/ https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-... - October 5th, 2025
  - rolph 11mo ago
    it wouldnt be about selling motorcycles, it would be a big pivot to home power generation. engine quality and serviceability would be initial point to pursue. https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-home-standby-gensets-market https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-h... https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/residential-generators-market-101024 https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/resident...
- SonOfKyuss 11mo ago
  There’s some logic to it because the demographic that is aging out of Harleys might be also aging into backup home generators
  - mgerdts 11mo ago
    Is there a market for ridiculously loud generators?

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 11mo ago

If your gears are good then torque doesn't matter, only horsepower. A bunch of people already make generators in gasoline, diesel, and propane appetite

SonOfKyuss 11mo ago

That’s an interesting idea. I wonder how they would fare against the established engines from Honda and Briggs and Stratton or diesel alternatives. They would probably get a boost from name recognition at least.

mikestew 11mo ago

HD would probably do good with a line of generator products So, the suggestion is to pit HD against Honda in a segment that expects reliability? One doesn't buy a HD because it can be sure to start when a hurricane is coming.

rolph 11mo ago
ive worked with both, and never had a problem starting either in rough weather. HD engine as is requires torquedown intervals due to the harmonics, but is easier to service than Honda was.