4 ms·

Harley-Davidson Dealerships Are Shutting Down Across America

28 points by bookofjoe 1y ago

rolph 1y ago
harley engines, are about low end torque, in a small form. HD would probably do good with a line of generator products if they still wanted to do business, and work with alternate fuels.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  The HD brand is tied to a demographic that is dying out [1]. It’s actually a great private equity play to squeeze out what’s left of the enterprise value as Boomers slowly age out of their market. HD tried to market an electric motorcycle ("Livewire") [2], but ended up having to spin it out into its own company because HD riders are buying the HD aesthetic, not the motorcycle itself, which is simply a vehicle for said aesthetic. Livewire for younger buyers, HD for old men buying the exhaust note of a copyrighted engine that is purposely louder but less efficient. > To be fair, revenues and unit sales have enjoyed a nice bounce since the pits of the financial crisis. But Harley will never get its old mojo back for one critical reason that is completely outside of its control: demographics. > Down the road from my house in Dallas, there is greasy drive-in burger joint called Keller’s … a place I’ve been known to frequent a little more often than my doctor might recommend. On any given weekend, you might see a dozen or more bikers parked in the lot, showing off their chrome-laden Harleys. And nearly all of them are over the age of 45. Most are over 50. > This isn’t a coincidence. Harley-Davidson is a brand whose sales depend disproportionately -- almost exclusively, in fact -- on middle-aged Caucasian males. Riders younger than 40 generally lack the time, interest or the bankroll to buy a Harley. But by the time they get into their 60s or older, the noise and joint pain have begun to make riding lose its allure. You might still ride in your 60s, but you’re doing it less frequently and you probably aren’t buying a new bike. > The sweet spot is the mid-40s to early 50s. And with the Baby Boomers -- the largest and wealthiest generation in history -- now largely aged out of this key demographic bracket, Harley has a serious problem. Generation X -- my generation -- is not nearly large enough to pick up the slack, and Generation Y (aka “the Millennials” or “Echo Boomers”) are decades away from being in the demographic sweet spot for Harley, and this assumes they take to riding like their dads did. The number of American men aged 40-49 is set to decline through the early 2020s and won’t reach its old 2010 peak until 2035. > CNN Money reported on this as far back as 2010, and demographic strategist Harry Dent -- my old boss -- has used Harley as a case study for decades. [1] Blame Harley-Davidson's Downfall On Baby Boomer Demographics - https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-davidsons-downfall-baby-boomer-demographics/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-... - November 13th, 2013 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) (for context, ~2M people 55+ die every year in the US, and ~4M Boomers retire; by 2031, the US population over the age of 65 will be ~75M, almost double what it was in 2008)
  - rolph 1y ago
    what im looking at is the new niche and demographic. the engine design is well suited to drive a dynamo and power a home during outage. this would mean continued operation of engine plants, and retooling assembly plants to build backup generation devices. alternatively, sell generation ready versions of the engine to OEM generator builders.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      I think it is more likely buyers buy Powerwalls and other battery storage (Anker, EcoFlow) vs a motorcycle that can act as a generator. Their motors are not as good as Honda, Caterpillar, Cummins, Kohler, or Briggs & Stratton. They are designed to be loud, not to be good. The American motorcycle industry is facing significant headwinds, and HD is simply not positioned for success. The American Motorcycle Market Decline: What the 9.2% Drop Reveals About Consumer Sentiment - https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-decline-what-the-9-2-drop-reveals-about-consumer-sentiment/ https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-... - October 5th, 2025
      - rolph 1y ago
        it wouldnt be about selling motorcycles, it would be a big pivot to home power generation. engine quality and serviceability would be initial point to pursue. https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-home-standby-gensets-market https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-h... https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/residential-generators-market-101024 https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/resident...
    - SonOfKyuss 1y ago
      There’s some logic to it because the demographic that is aging out of Harleys might be also aging into backup home generators
      - mgerdts 1y ago
        Is there a market for ridiculously loud generators?
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
  If your gears are good then torque doesn't matter, only horsepower. A bunch of people already make generators in gasoline, diesel, and propane appetite
- SonOfKyuss 1y ago
  That’s an interesting idea. I wonder how they would fare against the established engines from Honda and Briggs and Stratton or diesel alternatives. They would probably get a boost from name recognition at least.
- mikestew 1y ago
  HD would probably do good with a line of generator products So, the suggestion is to pit HD against Honda in a segment that expects reliability? One doesn't buy a HD because it can be sure to start when a hurricane is coming.
  - rolph 1y ago
    ive worked with both, and never had a problem starting either in rough weather. HD engine as is requires torquedown intervals due to the harmonics, but is easier to service than Honda was.
rmason 1y ago
I don't think GenZ and Millennials have the expendable income. Between college debt and a house mortgage the extra money just isn't there, even if they find the Harley's attractive.
- EliteGadget 1y ago
  They just aren't very good motorcycles. You can get almost any other motorcycle and they will be better to ride, more reliable and probably cost a lot less. Harley Davidson also didn't modernise its brand. Also a lot of the image of Harley Davidson is attached to the heyday of motorcycle gangs, old movies between the 50s-80s e.g. "Easy Rider", "Electra Glide in Blue" and Music from that era.
  - bookofjoe 1y ago
    "Electra Glide in Blue" (1973) is a great movie, worth seeking out. Trailer: https://youtu.be/_ql3l9C_qQ4?si=Qn3gTN4SX_IeXyul https://youtu.be/_ql3l9C_qQ4?si=Qn3gTN4SX_IeXyul
AngryData 1y ago
They are too expensive for younger generations, too unreliable for people without tools and a garage and mechanical experience along with crazy expensive parts, and the old people who still love Harleys are now old enough that riding a motorcycle is treacherous at best because age reduces both balance and strength which are important factors in safely riding a motorcycle in anything but the most ideal conditions. Also, single pin crank engines are essentially obsolete but that is the distinctive sound of Harleys. So they can't change the motor without losing customers, but also that engine is a dead-end for use in most any other application too. Double pin cranks are superior in basically every way with better performance, better efficiency, and less vibration.
smackeyacky 1y ago
Harley backed themselves into a niche and only have themselves to blame. I ride motorcycles but have zero interest in Harley’s because most of the riders seem to be cosplaying a 1%er vibe that is off putting in the extreme. The clothing lines are a giveaway as to who their market is. I divide riders into Harley enthusiasts and everybody else. People who like motorcycles generally have wide tastes or at least can appreciate all kinds of bikes. Harley riders wobble to a stop outside a bar and pretend to be hard men.
- Simulacra 1y ago
  When I rode a Honda, I loved to see Harley riders putting their bikes on trailers and taking them everywhere. They would take them to an event on the back of a trailer, and then just ride around the area near the hotel. Then back on the trailer to go home.
- shaftway 1y ago
  I just sold my Harley (literally this morning). And you're totally right about the vibe. I had a 2017 Roadster (a much more upright bike than the cruisers you think of when you think of Harleys) and any time someone asked, I'd explain "I ride a Harley, but I'm not a 'Harley guy'". I would never roll around with other Harley riders. I think the most telling thing was that when I priced my bike out, average mileage for that bike at that age was ~6500 miles. Which made my 52,000 miles a liability.
luqtas 1y ago
oh no! custom exhaust noise lost /s
- morgan814 1y ago
  Loud Harley's were cool when I was seven. I can't imagine being an adult and wanting to ride around on a 50k noisemaker.
fred_is_fred 1y ago
Harley is in a tough position. Despite the marketing it's mainly for people 55+ who make a good salary. The joke was always that if you lost a fight to someone on a Harley at least they could fix your teeth (since they're all dentists). As someone who's well on his way to 55+ there isn't anything less cool on the planet than a brand for the olds. It's the Buick of motorcycles.
richardatlarge 1y ago
I'm not sure the numbers support the dire title. A five percent decline ?
- shaftway 1y ago
  It's much more than a 5% decline. I started keeping track of Harley dealers around 2019. When I started tracking, the website listed 1859 locations around the world. Of those, 58 looked like merch stores (no bike sales, no services), so let's call it 1801. The last time I updated my stats was 18 months ago, and the number was 1409. I just looked today and it's 1237. So that's a reduction of just over 31%. I haven't plugged today's number into my analysis, but the 2024 numbers showed some countries hit much more disproportionately than others. All of the stores in Russia have been closed (for mostly obvious reasons). Almost all of the stores in Central America and the Caribbean have also closed (for not-obvious reasons). In the US I'd say the number looks somewhere between 5 and 10%, but again, that doesn't take into account the last 18 months.

28 points by bookofjoe 1y ago

harley engines, are about low end torque, in a small form. HD would probably do good with a line of generator products if they still wanted to do business, and work with alternate fuels.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
The HD brand is tied to a demographic that is dying out [1]. It’s actually a great private equity play to squeeze out what’s left of the enterprise value as Boomers slowly age out of their market. HD tried to market an electric motorcycle ("Livewire") [2], but ended up having to spin it out into its own company because HD riders are buying the HD aesthetic, not the motorcycle itself, which is simply a vehicle for said aesthetic. Livewire for younger buyers, HD for old men buying the exhaust note of a copyrighted engine that is purposely louder but less efficient. > To be fair, revenues and unit sales have enjoyed a nice bounce since the pits of the financial crisis. But Harley will never get its old mojo back for one critical reason that is completely outside of its control: demographics. > Down the road from my house in Dallas, there is greasy drive-in burger joint called Keller’s … a place I’ve been known to frequent a little more often than my doctor might recommend. On any given weekend, you might see a dozen or more bikers parked in the lot, showing off their chrome-laden Harleys. And nearly all of them are over the age of 45. Most are over 50. > This isn’t a coincidence. Harley-Davidson is a brand whose sales depend disproportionately -- almost exclusively, in fact -- on middle-aged Caucasian males. Riders younger than 40 generally lack the time, interest or the bankroll to buy a Harley. But by the time they get into their 60s or older, the noise and joint pain have begun to make riding lose its allure. You might still ride in your 60s, but you’re doing it less frequently and you probably aren’t buying a new bike. > The sweet spot is the mid-40s to early 50s. And with the Baby Boomers -- the largest and wealthiest generation in history -- now largely aged out of this key demographic bracket, Harley has a serious problem. Generation X -- my generation -- is not nearly large enough to pick up the slack, and Generation Y (aka “the Millennials” or “Echo Boomers”) are decades away from being in the demographic sweet spot for Harley, and this assumes they take to riding like their dads did. The number of American men aged 40-49 is set to decline through the early 2020s and won’t reach its old 2010 peak until 2035. > CNN Money reported on this as far back as 2010, and demographic strategist Harry Dent -- my old boss -- has used Harley as a case study for decades. [1] Blame Harley-Davidson's Downfall On Baby Boomer Demographics - https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-davidsons-downfall-baby-boomer-demographics/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/11/13/harley-... - November 13th, 2013 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiveWire_(motorcycle) (for context, ~2M people 55+ die every year in the US, and ~4M Boomers retire; by 2031, the US population over the age of 65 will be ~75M, almost double what it was in 2008)
- rolph 1y ago
  what im looking at is the new niche and demographic. the engine design is well suited to drive a dynamo and power a home during outage. this would mean continued operation of engine plants, and retooling assembly plants to build backup generation devices. alternatively, sell generation ready versions of the engine to OEM generator builders.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    I think it is more likely buyers buy Powerwalls and other battery storage (Anker, EcoFlow) vs a motorcycle that can act as a generator. Their motors are not as good as Honda, Caterpillar, Cummins, Kohler, or Briggs & Stratton. They are designed to be loud, not to be good. The American motorcycle industry is facing significant headwinds, and HD is simply not positioned for success. The American Motorcycle Market Decline: What the 9.2% Drop Reveals About Consumer Sentiment - https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-decline-what-the-9-2-drop-reveals-about-consumer-sentiment/ https://www.csm-research.com/the-american-motorcycle-market-... - October 5th, 2025
    - rolph 1y ago
      it wouldnt be about selling motorcycles, it would be a big pivot to home power generation. engine quality and serviceability would be initial point to pursue. https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-home-standby-gensets-market https://www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/north-america-h... https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/residential-generators-market-101024 https://www.globalgrowthinsights.com/market-reports/resident...
  - SonOfKyuss 1y ago
    There’s some logic to it because the demographic that is aging out of Harleys might be also aging into backup home generators
    - mgerdts 1y ago
      Is there a market for ridiculously loud generators?
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 1y ago
If your gears are good then torque doesn't matter, only horsepower. A bunch of people already make generators in gasoline, diesel, and propane appetite
SonOfKyuss 1y ago
That’s an interesting idea. I wonder how they would fare against the established engines from Honda and Briggs and Stratton or diesel alternatives. They would probably get a boost from name recognition at least.
mikestew 1y ago
HD would probably do good with a line of generator products So, the suggestion is to pit HD against Honda in a segment that expects reliability? One doesn't buy a HD because it can be sure to start when a hurricane is coming.
- rolph 1y ago
  ive worked with both, and never had a problem starting either in rough weather. HD engine as is requires torquedown intervals due to the harmonics, but is easier to service than Honda was.

rmason 1y ago

I don't think GenZ and Millennials have the expendable income. Between college debt and a house mortgage the extra money just isn't there, even if they find the Harley's attractive.

EliteGadget 1y ago
They just aren't very good motorcycles. You can get almost any other motorcycle and they will be better to ride, more reliable and probably cost a lot less. Harley Davidson also didn't modernise its brand. Also a lot of the image of Harley Davidson is attached to the heyday of motorcycle gangs, old movies between the 50s-80s e.g. "Easy Rider", "Electra Glide in Blue" and Music from that era.
- bookofjoe 1y ago
  "Electra Glide in Blue" (1973) is a great movie, worth seeking out. Trailer: https://youtu.be/_ql3l9C_qQ4?si=Qn3gTN4SX_IeXyul https://youtu.be/_ql3l9C_qQ4?si=Qn3gTN4SX_IeXyul

AngryData 1y ago

They are too expensive for younger generations, too unreliable for people without tools and a garage and mechanical experience along with crazy expensive parts, and the old people who still love Harleys are now old enough that riding a motorcycle is treacherous at best because age reduces both balance and strength which are important factors in safely riding a motorcycle in anything but the most ideal conditions. Also, single pin crank engines are essentially obsolete but that is the distinctive sound of Harleys. So they can't change the motor without losing customers, but also that engine is a dead-end for use in most any other application too. Double pin cranks are superior in basically every way with better performance, better efficiency, and less vibration.

smackeyacky 1y ago

Harley backed themselves into a niche and only have themselves to blame. I ride motorcycles but have zero interest in Harley’s because most of the riders seem to be cosplaying a 1%er vibe that is off putting in the extreme. The clothing lines are a giveaway as to who their market is. I divide riders into Harley enthusiasts and everybody else. People who like motorcycles generally have wide tastes or at least can appreciate all kinds of bikes. Harley riders wobble to a stop outside a bar and pretend to be hard men.

Simulacra 1y ago
When I rode a Honda, I loved to see Harley riders putting their bikes on trailers and taking them everywhere. They would take them to an event on the back of a trailer, and then just ride around the area near the hotel. Then back on the trailer to go home.
shaftway 1y ago
I just sold my Harley (literally this morning). And you're totally right about the vibe. I had a 2017 Roadster (a much more upright bike than the cruisers you think of when you think of Harleys) and any time someone asked, I'd explain "I ride a Harley, but I'm not a 'Harley guy'". I would never roll around with other Harley riders. I think the most telling thing was that when I priced my bike out, average mileage for that bike at that age was ~6500 miles. Which made my 52,000 miles a liability.

luqtas 1y ago

oh no! custom exhaust noise lost /s

morgan814 1y ago
Loud Harley's were cool when I was seven. I can't imagine being an adult and wanting to ride around on a 50k noisemaker.

fred_is_fred 1y ago

Harley is in a tough position. Despite the marketing it's mainly for people 55+ who make a good salary. The joke was always that if you lost a fight to someone on a Harley at least they could fix your teeth (since they're all dentists). As someone who's well on his way to 55+ there isn't anything less cool on the planet than a brand for the olds. It's the Buick of motorcycles.

richardatlarge 1y ago

I'm not sure the numbers support the dire title. A five percent decline ?

shaftway 1y ago
It's much more than a 5% decline. I started keeping track of Harley dealers around 2019. When I started tracking, the website listed 1859 locations around the world. Of those, 58 looked like merch stores (no bike sales, no services), so let's call it 1801. The last time I updated my stats was 18 months ago, and the number was 1409. I just looked today and it's 1237. So that's a reduction of just over 31%. I haven't plugged today's number into my analysis, but the 2024 numbers showed some countries hit much more disproportionately than others. All of the stores in Russia have been closed (for mostly obvious reasons). Almost all of the stores in Central America and the Caribbean have also closed (for not-obvious reasons). In the US I'd say the number looks somewhere between 5 and 10%, but again, that doesn't take into account the last 18 months.