4 ms·

Education is not just a funding issues. Policy choices, like making it impossible for students to fail which means they have no incentive to learn anything, can

by daedrdev 11mo ago

Education is not just a funding issues. Policy choices, like making it impossible for students to fail which means they have no incentive to learn anything, can be more impactful.

taurath 11mo ago
But holy shit is it also a funding issue when teachers make nothing.
- gilfoy 11mo ago
  As far as I understand it, the problem isn’t that teachers are shit. Giving more money would bring in better teachers, but I don’t know that they’d be able to overcome the other obstacles
  - BoiledCabbage 11mo ago
    > Giving more money would bring in better teachers, but I don’t know that they’d be able to overcome the other obstacles Start with the easiest thing to control? Of giving more money and see what it does? We seem to believe in every other industry that to get the best talent pay a high salary salary, but for some reason we expect teachers to do it out of compassion for the children while they struggle to pay bills. It's absurd. Probably one of the single most important responsibilities of a society is to prepare the next generation, and it pays enormous return. But because we can't measure it with quarterly profits we just ignore it. The rate of return on providing society with as good education is insane.
- throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
  I date a lot of teachers. My last one was in the San Ramon (CA) Valley School district, she makes about $90k a year at 34 years old. Talking to her basically makes me want to homeschool my kids to make sure someone like her isn't their teacher. Paying teachers more won't do ANYTHING until we become a lot more selective about who gets to become and stay a teacher. It can't be like most government jobs where getting it is like winning the lottery and knowing you can make above market money for below market performance.
  - michaelmrose 11mo ago
    There is so much wrong with this. You cannot judge the class of teachers based on a small sample of your taste in women. You didn't actually communicate anything materially wrong with her. You listed a high income area to make us think teachers are overpaid but we have no insight by default into median income in the area or her qualifications. Lastly its entirely impossible to attract better candidates without more money its just not how the world works. For reference the median household income in san ramon is about 200k so 2 teachers would be below average. A cop with her experience in the same town makes 158k
    - deleted 11mo ago
      [deleted]
    - throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
      I personally am not of the belief that anyone making under $90k a year is dumb. I believe if you were selective, you could take smart motivated people from other industries that don't pay much but still have smart employees, and have them do a great job teaching.
      - michaelmrose 11mo ago
        You are dealing with people with masters degrees in their field who you are trusting with the next generation. There is no reason to expect to find more qualified people for less money when you are starting at 45% of median household income for the area. Highly qualified individuals in other career tracks are often paid more while also lacking the relevant skills and education. Industries that are lower paid are going to be even less qualified. You attract superior talent by either paying more full stop. Why don't you ask actual teachers.
        throwawaylaptop 10mo ago
        I do talk to actual teachers at many social events, and IMO they are a joke. Maybe it's hard to get this across in short messages. Maybe take a look at reading and math proficiency rates... And then add in the fact that many kids propping up those stats are basically part time home schooled by parents after school and on the weekend to makeup for the lacking teachers.
- anomaly_ 11mo ago
  I think you need to research the issue more. Teachers are well remunerated in most states. Educational outcomes are largely a function of policy settings. Have a look at the amazing turnaround in literacy rates in Mississippi after they started teaching phonics again.

Education is not just a funding issues. Policy choices, like making it impossible for students to fail which means they have no incentive to learn anything, can be more impactful.

taurath 11mo ago

But holy shit is it also a funding issue when teachers make nothing.

gilfoy 11mo ago
As far as I understand it, the problem isn’t that teachers are shit. Giving more money would bring in better teachers, but I don’t know that they’d be able to overcome the other obstacles
- BoiledCabbage 11mo ago
  > Giving more money would bring in better teachers, but I don’t know that they’d be able to overcome the other obstacles Start with the easiest thing to control? Of giving more money and see what it does? We seem to believe in every other industry that to get the best talent pay a high salary salary, but for some reason we expect teachers to do it out of compassion for the children while they struggle to pay bills. It's absurd. Probably one of the single most important responsibilities of a society is to prepare the next generation, and it pays enormous return. But because we can't measure it with quarterly profits we just ignore it. The rate of return on providing society with as good education is insane.
throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
I date a lot of teachers. My last one was in the San Ramon (CA) Valley School district, she makes about $90k a year at 34 years old. Talking to her basically makes me want to homeschool my kids to make sure someone like her isn't their teacher. Paying teachers more won't do ANYTHING until we become a lot more selective about who gets to become and stay a teacher. It can't be like most government jobs where getting it is like winning the lottery and knowing you can make above market money for below market performance.
- michaelmrose 11mo ago
  There is so much wrong with this. You cannot judge the class of teachers based on a small sample of your taste in women. You didn't actually communicate anything materially wrong with her. You listed a high income area to make us think teachers are overpaid but we have no insight by default into median income in the area or her qualifications. Lastly its entirely impossible to attract better candidates without more money its just not how the world works. For reference the median household income in san ramon is about 200k so 2 teachers would be below average. A cop with her experience in the same town makes 158k
  - deleted 11mo ago
    [deleted]
  - throwawaylaptop 11mo ago
    I personally am not of the belief that anyone making under $90k a year is dumb. I believe if you were selective, you could take smart motivated people from other industries that don't pay much but still have smart employees, and have them do a great job teaching.
    - michaelmrose 11mo ago
      You are dealing with people with masters degrees in their field who you are trusting with the next generation. There is no reason to expect to find more qualified people for less money when you are starting at 45% of median household income for the area. Highly qualified individuals in other career tracks are often paid more while also lacking the relevant skills and education. Industries that are lower paid are going to be even less qualified. You attract superior talent by either paying more full stop. Why don't you ask actual teachers.
      - throwawaylaptop 10mo ago
        I do talk to actual teachers at many social events, and IMO they are a joke. Maybe it's hard to get this across in short messages. Maybe take a look at reading and math proficiency rates... And then add in the fact that many kids propping up those stats are basically part time home schooled by parents after school and on the weekend to makeup for the lacking teachers.
anomaly_ 11mo ago
I think you need to research the issue more. Teachers are well remunerated in most states. Educational outcomes are largely a function of policy settings. Have a look at the amazing turnaround in literacy rates in Mississippi after they started teaching phonics again.