3 ms·

>Hate to break your cherry, but that's all industries. It's not binary where it either it is or it isn't but there's various levels to it and Pharma gets spec

>Hate to break your cherry, but that's all industries. It's not binary where it either it is or it isn't but there's various levels to it and Pharma gets special privilege over industries like cars, phones or semiconductors, since it deals with people's lives. > as Asian players in both China and India have largely disrupted the generics Then why did I never took an Indian or Chinese made paracetamol, but all generics in my EU country I ever took from the pharmacy ware locally made? Meanwhile I can't buy a locally made laptop, smartphone, GPU, it's all Asian made goods.

alephnerd 11mo ago
> Then why did I never took an Indian or Chinese made paracetamol, but all generics in my EU country I ever took from the pharmacy ware locally made Because it was synthesized using Chinese and Indian sourced "Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients" (APIs) [0], both of whom synthesize around 80% of all APIs required by European pharma manufacturers. The EU is trying to rectify this, especially after COVID when India decided to stop all exports of APIs and pharmaceuticals to Europe in order to prioritize domestic production [1], but it still takes time (they started in 2021, and it'll probably take another 5-7 years to build the critical mass needed to rebuild a domestic ecosystem). > Meanwhile I can't buy a locally made laptop, smartphone, GPU, it's all Asian made goods Becuase, as I have kept elucidating on multiple occasions on this thread, the entire ecosystem for these goods simply does not exist in Europe, and no European member state is interested in opening their pocketbooks to subsidize manufacturers to move to Europe in order to begin manufacturing the intermediate parts needed. Countries like those across ASEAN, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, the US, and India offer millions to billions of dollars in hard cash, land, tax subsidizes, or a mix of all 3 in order to attract or retain manufacturers. EU member states simply does not do the same for electronics. Some of them absolutely do so for biopharma (such as Denmark), but by and large they tend to be exceptions of the rule. > Pharma gets special privilege over industries like cars, phones or semiconductors, since it deals with people's lives Ime, Pharma PLIs and incentives are fairly comparable to those that would be provided to electronic industries as well. The same tax sops India gave to attract Apple to TN were similar to those that India gave Novartis and Bayer decades ago, and China has been using the same subsidy program it used to attract electronics manufacturing to attract and become a major player in the biopharma space. [0] - https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/172383/ https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/172383/ [1] - https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/05/india-vaccine-heist-shoddy-regulatory-oversight-imperil-global-vaccine-access/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/05/india-vaccine-heist-shod...
- jack_tripper 11mo ago
  >Because it was synthesized using Chinese and Indian sourced "Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients" (APIs) [0], both of whom synthesize around 80% of all APIs required by European pharma manufacturers. And the EU pharma companies package it, slap their logos on it and make mega profits selling domestically. >EU member states simply does not do the same for electronics. Why do you think that is? Surely with a war next door and China not guaranteed be a cooperator all the time, that would be a priority.
  - alephnerd 11mo ago
    > And the EU pharma companies package it, slap their logos on it and make mega profits selling domestically Yep. > Why do you think that is? Because European nations lacks the linkages needed to build a competitive electronics industry. Much of the industry is heavily linked across the Pacific, with the US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore transferring technology, capital, and personnel across borders to setup supply chains. This is different with biopharma, given how closely connected European majors are with American subsidiaries. It also really doesn't hurt that much of American pharma has historically been consolidated in Greater Boston and the Delaware region which is just across the Atlantic, and European biopharma players have acted as the technology, capital, and personnel partner for developing these industries in India and China (though both do still prefer American players because of better budgets and more bleeding edge IP). Additionally, where leadership are from matters as well. In the 1970s to 1990s, much of the electronics and software industry's mid-level and upper level leadership was West Coast based, Israel, or Asian in origin, which meant linkages were built much earlier, such as Morris Chang (Texas Instruments), Jason Chang (IllinoisTech), Vinod Dham (Intel), Dov Frohman (Intel), Kim Choong-Ki (Fairchild), Gurpreet Singh (Continental Electronics), etc. Heck, Intel began packaging semiconductors in Malaysia all the way back in 1973 - decades before they initiatited similar investments in Ireland. The only European company that had a similar size and scope of American or Asian companies in the electronics industry was Philips NV before it broke up, but it was never at the size and scale of American Apple, IBM, or HP or Japanese Sony, Toshiba, or Sharp - let alone their Korean challengers in the 2000s like Samsung, SK Hynix, or Hyundai or their Chinese challengers in the 2010s like Huawei, TCL, Xiaomi, etc. Most European countries lack the same bench of diaspora in leadership positions in large swathes of innovation industries. You'll easily find European leaders in services industries along with biopharma, but you'd never find a similar clustering in software, hardware, and even increasingly in biopharma to a certain extent. Heck, most Indians who attend a Max Plank Institute for biopharma related work now return to India with a professorship or to lead an India- or America-located lab for a major like Novartis, GSK, etc.

alephnerd 11mo ago

> Then why did I never took an Indian or Chinese made paracetamol, but all generics in my EU country I ever took from the pharmacy ware locally made Because it was synthesized using Chinese and Indian sourced "Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients" (APIs) [0], both of whom synthesize around 80% of all APIs required by European pharma manufacturers. The EU is trying to rectify this, especially after COVID when India decided to stop all exports of APIs and pharmaceuticals to Europe in order to prioritize domestic production [1], but it still takes time (they started in 2021, and it'll probably take another 5-7 years to build the critical mass needed to rebuild a domestic ecosystem). > Meanwhile I can't buy a locally made laptop, smartphone, GPU, it's all Asian made goods Becuase, as I have kept elucidating on multiple occasions on this thread, the entire ecosystem for these goods simply does not exist in Europe, and no European member state is interested in opening their pocketbooks to subsidize manufacturers to move to Europe in order to begin manufacturing the intermediate parts needed. Countries like those across ASEAN, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, China, the US, and India offer millions to billions of dollars in hard cash, land, tax subsidizes, or a mix of all 3 in order to attract or retain manufacturers. EU member states simply does not do the same for electronics. Some of them absolutely do so for biopharma (such as Denmark), but by and large they tend to be exceptions of the rule. > Pharma gets special privilege over industries like cars, phones or semiconductors, since it deals with people's lives Ime, Pharma PLIs and incentives are fairly comparable to those that would be provided to electronic industries as well. The same tax sops India gave to attract Apple to TN were similar to those that India gave Novartis and Bayer decades ago, and China has been using the same subsidy program it used to attract electronics manufacturing to attract and become a major player in the biopharma space. [0] - https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/172383/ https://pharmacia.pensoft.net/article/172383/ [1] - https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/05/india-vaccine-heist-shoddy-regulatory-oversight-imperil-global-vaccine-access/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/05/india-vaccine-heist-shod...

jack_tripper 11mo ago
>Because it was synthesized using Chinese and Indian sourced "Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients" (APIs) [0], both of whom synthesize around 80% of all APIs required by European pharma manufacturers. And the EU pharma companies package it, slap their logos on it and make mega profits selling domestically. >EU member states simply does not do the same for electronics. Why do you think that is? Surely with a war next door and China not guaranteed be a cooperator all the time, that would be a priority.
- alephnerd 11mo ago
  > And the EU pharma companies package it, slap their logos on it and make mega profits selling domestically Yep. > Why do you think that is? Because European nations lacks the linkages needed to build a competitive electronics industry. Much of the industry is heavily linked across the Pacific, with the US, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore transferring technology, capital, and personnel across borders to setup supply chains. This is different with biopharma, given how closely connected European majors are with American subsidiaries. It also really doesn't hurt that much of American pharma has historically been consolidated in Greater Boston and the Delaware region which is just across the Atlantic, and European biopharma players have acted as the technology, capital, and personnel partner for developing these industries in India and China (though both do still prefer American players because of better budgets and more bleeding edge IP). Additionally, where leadership are from matters as well. In the 1970s to 1990s, much of the electronics and software industry's mid-level and upper level leadership was West Coast based, Israel, or Asian in origin, which meant linkages were built much earlier, such as Morris Chang (Texas Instruments), Jason Chang (IllinoisTech), Vinod Dham (Intel), Dov Frohman (Intel), Kim Choong-Ki (Fairchild), Gurpreet Singh (Continental Electronics), etc. Heck, Intel began packaging semiconductors in Malaysia all the way back in 1973 - decades before they initiatited similar investments in Ireland. The only European company that had a similar size and scope of American or Asian companies in the electronics industry was Philips NV before it broke up, but it was never at the size and scale of American Apple, IBM, or HP or Japanese Sony, Toshiba, or Sharp - let alone their Korean challengers in the 2000s like Samsung, SK Hynix, or Hyundai or their Chinese challengers in the 2010s like Huawei, TCL, Xiaomi, etc. Most European countries lack the same bench of diaspora in leadership positions in large swathes of innovation industries. You'll easily find European leaders in services industries along with biopharma, but you'd never find a similar clustering in software, hardware, and even increasingly in biopharma to a certain extent. Heck, most Indians who attend a Max Plank Institute for biopharma related work now return to India with a professorship or to lead an India- or America-located lab for a major like Novartis, GSK, etc.