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Let's pretend for a minute that I think it's reasonable to swap black & white in these sentences and call them equivalent (I don't)... There's still a mammoth d

Let's pretend for a minute that I think it's reasonable to swap black & white in these sentences and call them equivalent (I don't)... There's still a mammoth difference between opinions someone writes on a blog and things people say to their employees or coworkers at work. I can't think of a time that I faced the level of ugliness laid out in this story even once in my 32 years, so the last thing that occurs to me when I read something like this is "Wow, the author is saying some completely unacceptably racist things" [EDIT: Shit. I'm 34, not 32 or even 33. I have no idea why I can't keep that straight.]

davidtyleryork 14y ago
Yeah, this pretty much nails it.
seagreen 14y ago
Maybe you had a job or something that required you to write your name a lot when you were 32? I keep getting my address mixed up because it's almost, but not quite, identical to my old one. It can be pretty embarrassing.
- famousactress 14y ago
  Actually I suspect it's not a coincidence that two years ago I joined a startup with a pretty hectic pace :) Time flies!
Tipzntrix 14y ago
The tone isn't helping his case. I've been around these kind of complaints in person, and while I know that the injustices taking place are horrible and uncalled for, I also know that the complainer is also (not-so-subtly any more) racist as well. Perhaps he wasn't before he entered the school system or the workforce (not necessarily this job), but saying things like dumbwhite*, bringing up colonization like slavery as property is taking place in his neighbourhood (he's going through legal to get this solved, something slaves could never do), and repeatedly bringing up that his tormentors are white, male, rich, etc. just shows that he's brought his own racist viewpoints to the table. This reminds me of the atmosphere in South Africa years after apartheid was rescinded. The atmosphere, not the gruesome crimes. Perhaps it can be justified, but it sure wasn't how MLK Jr. or Mandela (at least after he became president) attacked the problem and it's only good for outrage, not getting anything done. White guilt isn't going to help solve racism, but I agree that the author deserves some justice.
- pron 14y ago
  There's a huge difference between stuff that those in power (the hegemony) say and do to minorities or others who are less powerful and what flows in the other direction.
- pja 14y ago
  Ah, the tone argument. Are you looking to round out the racism discussion derail bingo card, or just completely clueless?
  - saraid216 14y ago
    On HN, you can usually be sure it's cluelessness. On the other hand, it's not really a cluelessness that can be addressed by lecturing about it: there are fundamentals that I've noticed are missing in a lot of people. It doesn't help that a lot of the language of power dynamics was co-opted by the self-help community, which can often be legitimately criticized in these ways.
  - jeltz 14y ago
    I am not sure he is using the tone argument, since he concludes with "but I agree that the author deserves some justice.". He may just be suggesting that many here at HN attack the author due to the racist tone of the post. Pointing out an ugly tone does not mean you think it invalidates the argument.
    - sadface 14y ago
      The "tone argument" isnt necessarily an attempt to counter the opposing viewpoint. It's a derailment. "Yes, you're angry but instead of talking about why you're angry let's talk about how the way you expressed your anger is inappropriate". Its an inappropriate topic change, directing blame at the author when it's really not warranted.
      - Tipzntrix 14y ago
        I'm just saying as far as history has dictated, guys like MLK Jr. and Gandhi got a lot more support than those who tries to cut completely against the grain like Malcolm X in his earlier days. As a minority, it is really, really hard to change or rectify the corruption of the majority by trying to fight them head-on. These sort of revolutions worked when the majority of the people overthrew a corrupt minority that had excessive power. However, thinking things over, I'm not sure if the author is even really out to solve the large racial issue in general with this post. I don't think that was his point, so maybe I'm offering suggestions to a goal that he never had in the first place. If this, like most tumblr posts, is just to get it out in writing so he can think clearly and draw attention by the public to the situation, then yes, it works.

davidtyleryork 14y ago

Yeah, this pretty much nails it.

seagreen 14y ago

Maybe you had a job or something that required you to write your name a lot when you were 32? I keep getting my address mixed up because it's almost, but not quite, identical to my old one. It can be pretty embarrassing.

famousactress 14y ago
Actually I suspect it's not a coincidence that two years ago I joined a startup with a pretty hectic pace :) Time flies!

Tipzntrix 14y ago

The tone isn't helping his case. I've been around these kind of complaints in person, and while I know that the injustices taking place are horrible and uncalled for, I also know that the complainer is also (not-so-subtly any more) racist as well. Perhaps he wasn't before he entered the school system or the workforce (not necessarily this job), but saying things like dumbwhite*, bringing up colonization like slavery as property is taking place in his neighbourhood (he's going through legal to get this solved, something slaves could never do), and repeatedly bringing up that his tormentors are white, male, rich, etc. just shows that he's brought his own racist viewpoints to the table. This reminds me of the atmosphere in South Africa years after apartheid was rescinded. The atmosphere, not the gruesome crimes. Perhaps it can be justified, but it sure wasn't how MLK Jr. or Mandela (at least after he became president) attacked the problem and it's only good for outrage, not getting anything done. White guilt isn't going to help solve racism, but I agree that the author deserves some justice.

pron 14y ago
There's a huge difference between stuff that those in power (the hegemony) say and do to minorities or others who are less powerful and what flows in the other direction.
pja 14y ago
Ah, the tone argument. Are you looking to round out the racism discussion derail bingo card, or just completely clueless?
- saraid216 14y ago
  On HN, you can usually be sure it's cluelessness. On the other hand, it's not really a cluelessness that can be addressed by lecturing about it: there are fundamentals that I've noticed are missing in a lot of people. It doesn't help that a lot of the language of power dynamics was co-opted by the self-help community, which can often be legitimately criticized in these ways.
- jeltz 14y ago
  I am not sure he is using the tone argument, since he concludes with "but I agree that the author deserves some justice.". He may just be suggesting that many here at HN attack the author due to the racist tone of the post. Pointing out an ugly tone does not mean you think it invalidates the argument.
  - sadface 14y ago
    The "tone argument" isnt necessarily an attempt to counter the opposing viewpoint. It's a derailment. "Yes, you're angry but instead of talking about why you're angry let's talk about how the way you expressed your anger is inappropriate". Its an inappropriate topic change, directing blame at the author when it's really not warranted.
    - Tipzntrix 14y ago
      I'm just saying as far as history has dictated, guys like MLK Jr. and Gandhi got a lot more support than those who tries to cut completely against the grain like Malcolm X in his earlier days. As a minority, it is really, really hard to change or rectify the corruption of the majority by trying to fight them head-on. These sort of revolutions worked when the majority of the people overthrew a corrupt minority that had excessive power. However, thinking things over, I'm not sure if the author is even really out to solve the large racial issue in general with this post. I don't think that was his point, so maybe I'm offering suggestions to a goal that he never had in the first place. If this, like most tumblr posts, is just to get it out in writing so he can think clearly and draw attention by the public to the situation, then yes, it works.